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Posted: |
Apr 5, 2018 - 6:08 PM
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By: |
jkruppa
(Member)
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Hi all, even though I'm a new member here, I've lurked off and on for years and have always been impressed by the knowledge everyone here has.
For myself, I did a crazy thing over the past couple of years and compiled a complete score of the Final Cut, using bootlegs and (mostly) the rear channels of various international releases of the blu-ray to get dialogue and sound effects-free versions of every cue. Quite an insane thing to do, but I learned probably more than anyone should about this score, and I'm very satisfied with the results.
And now I'm onto an even more insane task: tracking down all the temp music used in the Workprint. Fortunately, we're only talking 11 cues, from Deckard Enters the Bradbury up to (but not including) the End Titles.
Even better, I've identified four of the eleven, and they're all from Humanoids of the Deep. Here's the full list of cues in question, using descriptive scene titles for reference:
Deckard Enters the Bradbury
Roy Enters the Bradbury
Show Me What You’re Made Of – “Unwelcome Visitor” by James Horner (Humanoids From the Deep)
Roy Finds Pris/How To Stay Alive – “Night Swim” (edit) + “Jerry’s Death” by James Horner (Humanoids From the Deep)
That Hurt
Deckard Climbing
The Roof
Batty Saves Deckard
Tears in Rain – “Search For Clues” by James Horner (Humanoids From The Deep)
Rachael Sleeps – “Strange Catch” by James Horner (Humanoids From the Deep)
Escape
Here's where it gets tricky. Even though the otherwise unassailable Future Noir says that Terry Rawlings used cues from Alien, Freud and Planet of the Apes for the temp score, I've listened through those scores several times searching for these missing pieces, and I just don't hear them. I fully admit my ears could just be tired, though.
So I'm wondering, is anyone up to the task of listening to the Workprint cues (I've ripped them from the front channels of the blu-ray, if that helps) and seeing if we can track down the rest of the sources? I figured this forum would be the best place to start on something like this.
Bumping this. Surely some people must be curious about this and could recognize some of these cues.
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I found another one:
"That Hurt" is 36 seconds of "The Search Continues," from Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes score. The excerpt is edited too, just to make it a little more complicated.
The Prodigal Son brings Cues!
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So yeah, I see your point- we only know the temp music from the workprint, from which we can assume Vangelis scored the film chronologically, from start to end, so what was the original temp music for the first half of the film?
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From what I understand, Vangelis did not compose his music to Blade Runner "to picture", basing it off instead off the shooting script and the moods it conveyed to him, hence why the score is heavily tracked and edited in the final product.
Much of it was composed to picture (note how the cues for the love scene, and climactic sequence in the Bradbury are synced to the drama on screen).
The tracking and re-editing was the work of editor Terry Rawlings -- who routinely tinkered with scores after they'd been written, slicing and dicing music cues, moving them around into scenes for which they weren't written, and even retaining temp music (as he did in Alien and Legend).
During post production on Not Without My Daughter, music editor Ken Hall was so put-off by Rawlings re-editing Goldsmith's score for that film, that he confronted Rawlings, and asked "How would you feel if I went behind your back and started re-cutting the movie?"
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I suppose if one was a pragmatist working in movie making as a business you would accept that, but on the other hand, you're writing (and performing, in Vangelis' case) all this music and getting second-guessed by the editor. Wonder how much tinkering Rawlings did.
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From what I understand, Vangelis did not compose his music to Blade Runner "to picture", basing it off instead off the shooting script and the moods it conveyed to him, hence why the score is heavily tracked and edited in the final product.
Much of it was composed to picture (note how the cues for the love scene, and climactic sequence in the Bradbury are synced to the drama on screen).
I'd say it was half-and-half. I forgot in which thread I mentioned this, but my theory is that certain tracks (i.e. "Blade Runner Blues", "Tales of the Future") were composed based on rough assemblies of footage, like "suites" that are designed for multiple uses throughout the film. Concurrently, other tracks were composed for specific scenes ("Love Theme", "At Mr. Chew's"), and certain other tracks were just never used ("Longing, "Rachel's Song").
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I suppose if one was a pragmatist working in movie making as a business you would accept that, but on the other hand, you're writing (and performing, in Vangelis' case) all this music and getting second-guessed by the editor. Wonder how much tinkering Rawlings did.
It's hard to be certain in regard to Blade Runner, but comparing the scores for Alien and Legend on disc to how they were used in the film, gives a good insight into how severe Rawlings' tinkering could get.
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Of all the movies scored by Goldsmith that Rawlings edited, I never would have thought that it was during U.S. Marshals where Rawlings showed the most restraint in tinkering.
But I suppose that was because Stuart Baird was a friend of Goldsmith's, and therefore more protective of his music
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Posted: |
Jan 28, 2019 - 4:50 PM
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By: |
jkruppa
(Member)
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From what I understand, Vangelis did not compose his music to Blade Runner "to picture", basing it off instead off the shooting script and the moods it conveyed to him, hence why the score is heavily tracked and edited in the final product.
Much of it was composed to picture (note how the cues for the love scene, and climactic sequence in the Bradbury are synced to the drama on screen).
The tracking and re-editing was the work of editor Terry Rawlings -- who routinely tinkered with scores after they'd been written, slicing and dicing music cues, moving them around into scenes for which they weren't written, and even retaining temp music (as he did in Alien and Legend).
During post production on Not Without My Daughter, music editor Ken Hall was so put-off by Rawlings re-editing Goldsmith's score for that film, that he confronted Rawlings, and asked "How would you feel if I went behind your back and started re-cutting the movie?"
I hadn't heard this story re: Not Without My Daughter. Where's this from? I'd like to know more.
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I hadn't heard this story re: Not Without My Daughter. Where's this from? I'd like to know more.
I met and interviewed Ken Hall with a friend of mine back in the 1990s, and he relayed that story to us (though we did not include it in the interview). He did not go into further detail however.
This is actually a very interesting interview with Rawlings, mostly about his career, but he touches on working with Goldsmith on Alien and Legend...
http://animatedviews.com/2015/conversation-with-terry-rawlings/
Curiously, in this interview, Rawlings reveals that Goldsmith said almost the exact thing to him when working on Legend -- "I wouldn’t presume to come in and take your film and cut it, and I don’t expect you to take my music and do this."
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Hmm, for some reason, Rawlings doesn't mention his fourth collaboration with Goldsmith, U.S. Marshals
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