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 Posted:   Sep 21, 2011 - 2:08 PM   
 By:   Death Incarnate   (Member)

Lots of Alien 3 and Goldenthal fans here. It's personally my favorite of the films, and my favorite of the scores (only barely though, compared to Jerry's masterpiece). And we've seen amazingly awesome expansions of all of them except 3.

On the new Alien Anthology BluRay set, there is an isolated score for 3. It's pretty great to have all those great cues not on the album, but something is seriously wrong with whatever the source of that audio track is. On lots of cues, it sounds like tape warble, or cracks in the tape, or speed problems every now and then. Also, it sounds very muffled, like an analog copy of an analog copy of a copy, that is also not mastered.

I believe I read here a while ago, that MV (or someone) mentioned at Comic Con "Alien 3's masters are in no shape for an expanded release." Judging by the sound of the isolated score, that appears true. What a major drag for Goldenthal's magnum opus. Does anyone recall this? I searched to no avail.

Some of the greatest missing cues are so brief. The 6M2 "You're Going to Die Too" (Golic) is only :45 seconds, and so ominous and great. The part where the company meets 85 at cue 11M2-12M0 from 2:52-3:22, where he says "she's in the leadworks, with the beast", and these beautifully scary choir voices build up into dissonance chaos is brilliant. And of course, 12M2n3 where Morse sets up the trap, and the strings and horns duel against each other. So great!

With all that being said, I'll take a bit of Thor's side, and say the MCA album is sequenced so well, has all the important themes, and the running order ensures a great listening experience with not too much overlap of recurring pieces. I've read a few Goldenthal interviews where he talks about the importance of a soundtrack album as its own entity, and necessary to edit and sequence artistically, and he certainly achieved it with Alien 3.

And lastly, I absolutely love Elliot's comments on the score from this set. I wish every movie release had a featurette on the score and composer.

http://youtu.be/BVge6EKZXGs

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2011 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Everyone knows I hate expanded releases for the most part (as you yourself point out), but I'm afraid I'm even more so in the case of Goldenthal. He's such a musicological composer (weird phrase, I know) that his albums need to be arranged properly for the various, semi-classical setpieces to stand on their own, IMO. So I think the ALIEN 3 album is pretty much perfect the way it is. Plus, there isn't much more music that would add to the existing listening experience, in any case.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2011 - 3:10 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

The original album release is great but there are still a lot of highlights left off and on the album release the end is missing from 'the entrapment' (the repeating violins just fade out before the brass kicks in and it feels like an anticlimax). I do think this score would definitely be an engaging listen as C&C, Goldenthal had a lot of interesting ideas and motifs in this score.

The isolated score on the blu-ray set is a start and certainly some effort was made to present it as a listening experience, but it isn't the best source. A 2 CD release would be a holy grail release for me (and I imagine a lot of other people as well), but that statement MV made regarding the state of the elements isn't promising... Let's hope some tapes or files will turn up and they'll be able to expand it properly.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2011 - 5:35 PM   
 By:   The REAL BJBien   (Member)

If the tapes/source are in bad condition, I really wish EG could re-record the complete score.

I personally wouldn't mind an EXPANDED that that has a few more minutes of music left off and the existing work "cleaned up" as certain parts seemed to be cued together and are a bit distracting.

I personally would buy COMPLETE scores for both ALIEN 3 and TITUS.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2011 - 8:01 PM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

Everyone knows I hate expanded releases for the most part (as you yourself point out), but I'm afraid I'm even more so in the case of Goldenthal. He's such a musicological composer (weird phrase, I know) that his albums need to be arranged properly for the various, semi-classical setpieces to stand on their own, IMO. So I think the ALIEN 3 album is pretty much perfect the way it is. Plus, there isn't much more music that would add to the existing listening experience, in any case.


I'll agree here. The MCA album is a perfect representation of the score. While being no huge fan of Goldenthal, or of Alien 3 movie or score, the album does take the interesting parts of the score and present them in a cohesive manner. Sounds like the chances are slim of a release in an case, but this is one that doesn't seem to benefit from expansion. But for those who drool for it, i do hope there's better news down the road ! smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2011 - 8:07 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Ditto what everyone says about the album release being perfect.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2011 - 1:55 AM   
 By:   BigMacGyver2000   (Member)

Can't agree here. While the major set pieces are there, the album is lacking some amazing moments and thematic development. The trap building track is probably the most important omission. Bummer that the tapes have gone bad. The quality of the isolated blu-ray score varies a lot from track to track and some music editing is annoying too (worst case being ripleys basement confrontation track), but its at least an option. Can't say i prefer the blu-ray over the album, however i made my own expanded cd from both sources, which i clearly prefer over the album.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2011 - 2:26 AM   
 By:   Mink   (Member)

as far as I know the blue ray iso comes from a music only track and isn't compiled from the films master tapes. so this might be the reason for a bad sound. However I haven't notice those issues. Sounds ok for me and while I would also welcome a legit expanded CD release I'm very satisfied with having this score complete even if it's "just" the film dub.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2011 - 2:53 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Can't say i prefer the blu-ray over the album, however i made my own expanded cd from both sources, which i clearly prefer over the album.

I had to download an mp3 rip of the iso on the net as I can't rip my blu-rays (yet, unless I could use the ps3 but I haven't looked into that). I was thinking of editing the iso score once I got the raw file from my blu-ray but since it is the music dub track I don't want to waste my time on it, especially with all hope for an expanded release not lost yet.

It is such an amazing score in terms of mood, orchestration and sound design and pacing. A dream release would be a 2 CD edition à la intrada's "Alien" with perhaps even some alternates thrown in (the movie underwent heavy editing so I'm sure there are those as well). For me the biggest omissions on the album are "building the trap", the landing party cue (repeated twice) and there is a short but effective cue that is shown when Morse climbs the revolving stairs in the refinery near the end.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2011 - 6:34 AM   
 By:   Mink   (Member)

Frankly I can not understand peoples remark on the iso score. It's complete so what's the problem? A little editing here and there? I think the score runs pretty good with only minor alterations to original cues. Plus you get a lot of the altered tracks in their original form on the ost.

 
 
 Posted:   May 27, 2012 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   VampyreDjango   (Member)

Just watched this tonight and was blown away by the score. The film itself may have its problems, but the 2003 Special Edition is definitely a huge improvement on the theatrical cut.

However, I had completely forgotten how great the score was. Dark, tragic, bombastic and highly emotional. The final Adagio never fails to give me the chills...

...so, how come we haven't seen an expanded version of this epic work?

 
 
 Posted:   May 27, 2012 - 6:40 PM   
 By:   Glissolia   (Member)

All the Alien isolated scores have bad sound - the roll off is around 15khz or something. I dont know if its something to do with Java compression or whatever, but stereo Dolby Digital tracks on DVD go all the way to 20khz. Its weird...

 
 Posted:   May 27, 2012 - 9:37 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

All the Alien isolated scores have bad sound - the roll off is around 15khz or something. I dont know if its something to do with Java compression or whatever, but stereo Dolby Digital tracks on DVD go all the way to 20khz. Its weird...

say what????!!!

 
 Posted:   May 27, 2012 - 9:44 PM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

I must be cookoo or something because my philosophy is this on expanded scores. I do not hate them, those that I don't need expanded, I'm glad that some are, why? It's pretty unselfish reasons. I think you can make more people happy with expanded scores. WHY? Those that want their original albums can easily make their own 40 minute albums or, trim a playlist down to the exact tracks they want. Also, those that want every note can get it. It seems to be best for everyone if we had expanded scores as everyone can make their own playlist as to what they want, PLUS we can be happy for our fellow collector on them getting all the music they want. Am I the only one who thinks of others in these releases? I'm not that selfish that I say, oh my gosh, I don't like expanded scores and I do not want to have to spend almost 3 minutes of my life to make my own BEST of CDR or playlist.

My way of thinking seems to be out of whack as I think of everyone else so often and my greatest joy is seeing others happy, especially when it comes to my fellow soundtrack friends!

Let's try to think about other people who want every note. Can we be happy for them, even if we do not need an expanded, we can at least say, great for them, that's awesome and for those that don't want expanded, well you can save another few dollars!

 
 
 Posted:   May 27, 2012 - 10:48 PM   
 By:   Glissolia   (Member)

^---This. Well said, sir!

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2012 - 2:44 AM   
 By:   Henry Jones   (Member)

Like many, I would buy in a flash an expanded ("complete") version of ALIEN 3.

But if it's not possible, because masters are damaged beyond use then, so be it. C'est la vie.

At least now, the world deserves a re-release of the original oop CD. This one needs to be available again, IMHO.

 
 
 Posted:   May 28, 2012 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I must be cookoo or something because my philosophy is this on expanded scores. I do not hate them, those that I don't need expanded, I'm glad that some are, why? It's pretty unselfish reasons. I think you can make more people happy with expanded scores. WHY? Those that want their original albums can easily make their own 40 minute albums or, trim a playlist down to the exact tracks they want. Also, those that want every note can get it. It seems to be best for everyone if we had expanded scores as everyone can make their own playlist as to what they want, PLUS we can be happy for our fellow collector on them getting all the music they want. Am I the only one who thinks of others in these releases? I'm not that selfish that I say, oh my gosh, I don't like expanded scores and I do not want to have to spend almost 3 minutes of my life to make my own BEST of CDR or playlist.

My way of thinking seems to be out of whack as I think of everyone else so often and my greatest joy is seeing others happy, especially when it comes to my fellow soundtrack friends!

Let's try to think about other people who want every note. Can we be happy for them, even if we do not need an expanded, we can at least say, great for them, that's awesome and for those that don't want expanded, well you can save another few dollars!


I don't know if you're adressing me or the topic in general, but my earlier post in this thread was made back in 2011, and I've hardly said a thing about my negative feelings for the C&C since then (much to the delight of the crowd here, I would hope), but as far as making a 'best of' playlist, that's not really what I - personally - am into this thing for. I'm not going to say more than that other than to post this FAQ I made awhile back (for convenience):

http://www.celluloidtunes.net/non-website/faq.jpg

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2012 - 6:10 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

I shot a great video in Krakow with a certain Thor asking a certain mister Townson a certain question wink I'll upload it soon.

Regarding Alien 3, the selection they played at Krakow on saturday was stunning (over 20 minutes worth); 'agnus dei', 'bait and chase', 'lento', a bit of 'the first attack', the lullaby theme, the last part of 'the entrapment' and of course Adagio with the choir coming in at the end (!!) to boost the big finale. Spine-chillingly beautiful!

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2012 - 6:58 AM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

I must be cookoo or something because my philosophy is this on expanded scores. I do not hate them, those that I don't need expanded, I'm glad that some are, why? It's pretty unselfish reasons. I think you can make more people happy with expanded scores. WHY? Those that want their original albums can easily make their own 40 minute albums or, trim a playlist down to the exact tracks they want. Also, those that want every note can get it. It seems to be best for everyone if we had expanded scores as everyone can make their own playlist as to what they want, PLUS we can be happy for our fellow collector on them getting all the music they want. Am I the only one who thinks of others in these releases? I'm not that selfish that I say, oh my gosh, I don't like expanded scores and I do not want to have to spend almost 3 minutes of my life to make my own BEST of CDR or playlist.

My way of thinking seems to be out of whack as I think of everyone else so often and my greatest joy is seeing others happy, especially when it comes to my fellow soundtrack friends!

Let's try to think about other people who want every note. Can we be happy for them, even if we do not need an expanded, we can at least say, great for them, that's awesome and for those that don't want expanded, well you can save another few dollars!



It wasn't directed at you Thor, just folks who, are so persistent on no expanded scores. Some folks, they almost seem pissed off that some label will put out an expanded score. I don't understand why someone would be so upset over it, so you don't buy it, you save $20, great. Have we all gotten so lazy we can't make our own playlist or what not. Seems to me we've had so many great things hand delivered to us on a silver platter that that's now what we expect. And by playlist, that can be an itunes list or going through and ripping just the tracks you want and making your own best of CDR etc.

I wish we could hear more of this..."ohh an expanded blah blah blah, well I'm not really a fan, but there are a few tracks I've wanted, glad those that wanted it can not get it and once I get it, I don't mind spending a few minutes and just getting the few extra tracks I want and putting them altogether for my own listening pleasure."

 
 
 Posted:   May 28, 2012 - 7:09 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

It wasn't directed at you Thor, just folks who, are so persistent on no expanded scores. Some folks, they almost seem pissed off that some label will put out an expanded score. I don't understand why someone would be so upset over it, so you don't buy it, you save $20, great.

On that, I agree. If there's already a perfectly fine soundtrack of the score out there (in sound, performance, presentation etc.), there's no need to go ballistic. Just stick to that and don't buy the expanded. Of course, if no such album exists, the situation is a bit different, but in any case -- people should just say whatever they feel like, as long as it's polite and constructive. That's my life mantra! smile

Getting back to ALIEN 3, here's actually a rare case where I have some sort of preference of a film cue over the album cue, namely the sprinkler music. Far more aggressive and in-your-face and just spine-chillingly beautiful in the film, a bit more lackluster on album (but still rewarding).

 
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