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 Posted:   Nov 9, 2011 - 3:30 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

So, it looks like that box set will be ripping off previous CDs issued by Fresh Sound ("The Wild One"), Rykodisc ("I Want To Live!"), Varese Sarabande ("Crime In the Streets"), Sony/FSM ("The Subterraneans") and Universal France ("The Connection").

Not sure why you say "ripping off," Bob. Some of that content is OOP or difficult to get, and it's being made available again, probably with re-mastered sound. "Ripping off" has a highly pejorative connotation, implying that theft is occurring. You have some information about that?



Well, the new box set will most likely be compiled by "ripping" the tracks off of the previously issued CDs. No legal theft of course, just an unlicensed product made from sources other than the original tapes.


The information on the label's website suggests that the music came from original tapes. Not sure it's unlicensed or from sources other than the original tapes. You may be right, but I just wasn't sure how you would know. I don't mean to be contentious, but you sound as though you have some information that wasn't posted here already. Just trying to figure it out.

I think of "ripping" and "ripping off" as having different meanings, but maybe that's just me.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2011 - 4:16 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

The information on the label's website suggests that the music came from original tapes.

Yes the website "suggests" that original tapes are used, but it never actually states that specifically --"original soundtracks" not "original tapes" is the term that is used. I suppose that if the prior "original soundtrack" CDs that are being used as source materials came from the original tapes, in a sense this release also comes from the original soundtracks, and, why not, also from the original tapes as well.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2011 - 4:28 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Not sure it's unlicensed . . .

Oh, I'm not sure either. Call me a cynic, but I just think it’s unlikely that this label managed to license scores from Warner Bros., MGM/UA, Sony/Columbia, and Universal and combine them into one release. Particularly since they aren't legally required to license any of them to release them

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2011 - 4:41 PM   
 By:   MMM   (Member)

I have run into some foreign labels that are using 50+ year master recordings, and not paying writer and publisher royalties, which they are required to do. I know nothing about this particular release, so my statement has nothing to do with this label. But I do know that there are labels out there who appear to be hiding behind one specific claim of PD and acting like it affects others.

I'm not surprised that people are not paying their royalties, because some of these labels are only releasing music because they think they can get it out there for as low a price as possible. I have my doubts they care much about the product they are selling, and that is often reflected by mislabeling of specific tracks regarding their source. I just don't think they care other than making a quick buck before some other label does a similar release. I have run into this quite a lot where a label claims something is an original soundtrack when it is clearly a re-recording, and vice verss. Would have taken the label ten minutes to check and find out exactly what they were releasing, but apparently ten minutes spent on something other than earning more money is not in their business plan.

Just the fact that the only part of their business plan seems to be to put out the cheapest possible package possible would seem to attract the kind of people who can justify not paying anything to those they should be paying under the law. Hell, there are enough labels in the U. S. who are not paying their royalties when there is no PD status, so why would it be surprising that companies across the continent hide from their legal responsibilities, too?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2011 - 4:52 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Well, if nothing else, some of these overseas labels (this one included) do seem to put considerable effort into the physical presentation of the CDs (i.e., boxes, disc sleeves, liner notes). And as long as the source CDs or LPs that are being copied sound good, their product will sound decent as well--maybe even better, if they can apply modern ProTools technology to older releases. The buyer gets an acceptable product. But the artists/owners may get nothing.

 
 Posted:   Nov 9, 2011 - 9:11 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=84403&forumID=1&archive=0

This answers a few things. Each of the Fresh Sound CDs I've bought has had sound quality that noticeably exceeds that of previous releases of the same material which I've owned. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM is particularly fine in comparison to all LP and CD releases of this title I've heard. I'm not sure precisely where Mr. Pujol's comments in the article cited put us with regard to Bob's and David's questions (mostly assumptions) regarding the label's business practices, but its product, I can tell you, is very nicely presented and fine sounding. My impression is that Fresh Sound is a serious label dedicated to preserving the jazz tradition, and that it makes at least some attempt to operate within ethical bounds when it comes to payments.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 10, 2011 - 1:53 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

I'm not sure precisely where Mr. Pujol's comments in the article cited put us with regard to Bob's and David's questions (mostly assumptions) regarding the label's business practices . . .

I think Mr. Pujol makes it quite clear that:

- They don't license recordings from the labels that own them unless European copyright law requires it, i.e., only if it's not in the public domain.
- They generally use LPs, 45s, 78s, CDs, and commercially sold reel-to-reel tapes as source materials.
- They will acquire (and pay for) source materials directly from composers or their families if need be.
- They usually make some attempt to clean up the sound from the sources used.
- They pay mechanical royalties for composers to the Spanish version of ASCAP, as required by law.

In short, Fresh Sound does exactly what I theorized that Moochin About does -- they don't license or use original tapes from the record companies that own them, and they generally copy previously issued commercial recordings for their source materials. However, they do seem to pay the royalties that were MMM's main concern.

It's all perfectly legal. Let's just not kid ourselves as to what their sources are and how much work they put into their product as opposed to the labels that actually produced the releases that they are copying for their source materials.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 3, 2013 - 9:21 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Moochin' About has just released their third box set, focused on French New Wave films. I have most of this stuff already.

http://moochinabout.com/jazz.html

Of the three box sets, I have the second one, because I did not have most of it. Great sound and booklet, and a great value.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2014 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   jeff1   (Member)

Looks like a 5th volume in this series of box sets is being released next month. 16 "crime jazz" television soundtrack albums on 8 CDs. A lot of this stuff has appeared on other labels and on iTunes before, but there's a few gems like The Naked City and Shotgun Slade that would seem to be CD firsts.

77 Sunset Strip - Warren Barker
Hawaiian Eye - Warren Barker
M Squad - Stanley Wilson
Staccato - Elmer Bernstein
Mikey Spillane's Mike Hammer - Stan Purdy Orchestra
Music From Mike Hammer - Skip Martin
Checkmate - Johnny Williams
Shotgun Slade - Gerald Fried/Stanley Wilson Orchestra
Peter Gunn - Henry Mancini
More Music from Peter Gunn - Henry Mancini
Mr Lucky - Henry Mancini
Mr Lucky Goes Latin - Henry Mancini
The Naked City - George Dunning
The Untouchables - Nelson Riddle
Richard Diamond - Pete Rugolo
Bourbon St Beat - Don Ralke

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KJ3VW28

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2014 - 4:34 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

At roughly $40 U. S. delivered, that's a pretty interesting line-up...

EDIT: Finally, 3 years almost after this thread was first posted, I've now ordered the NOIR box as well as preordered the CRIME JAZZ set. I'm hoping that the sound improvement on STREETCAR is as dramatic as the Fresh Sound treatment of MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM. Some of the others in the NOIR box I already have but am rolling the dice a bit on that one. The chance to get NAKED CITY and so many other unreleased (on CD) titles on the CRIME JAZZ set was just too good to pass up, especially considering that the whole thing turns out to be only about $45 including the postage! I'll let everybody know how the thing turns out. Hoping it's good (and good sounding) stuff!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2014 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

That is a great lineup on the TV crime jazz set.

I have volume 2 of this series, but I skipped the others, as they mostly contained stuff I already owned. Lots of the TV crime stuff I have on LP, but I have little on CD, so I will have to spring for this.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2014 - 10:31 AM   
 By:   jeff1   (Member)

I've had the "Crime Jazz" set for the last couple of days. As usual the packaging is first class, with really neat graphic design and a 60+ page booklet.

As far as the new (to me) stuff goes, the Gerald Fried/Stanley Wilson Shotgun Slade album is the pick of the bunch. The Untouchables is also a lot of fun. The additional Mike Hammer tracks consist of a vocal narration (by Spillane himself) and 4 music tracks by Stan Purdy from a pair of EPs. The Naked City is a real disappointment, with George Duning's compositions dialled down in favour of cheesy narration and awful Ned Washington songs that seem to have little to do with anything.

In general the sound quality isn't bad, but it isn't great either. I already own 10 of the 16 albums presented, and in most cases there is no sonic upgrade to be had here. The complete lack of copyright or mastering information suggests these are unlicensed and are from vinyl sources in some cases. Checkmate, 77 Sunset Strip and the Mike Hammer album all sound worse than previous CD editions. The Mancini stuff sounds more or less the same.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2014 - 3:43 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


In general the sound quality isn't bad, but it isn't great either. I already own 10 of the 16 albums presented, and in most cases there is no sonic upgrade to be had here. The complete lack of copyright or mastering information suggests these are unlicensed and are from vinyl sources in some cases. Checkmate, 77 Sunset Strip and the Mike Hammer album all sound worse than previous CD editions. The Mancini stuff sounds more or less the same.


That is disappointing. The sound on the set I have is very good, sounding like some if not all are from digital sources. I have ordered the box you're describing and am looking forward to hearing it.

 
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