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 Posted:   Nov 28, 2011 - 11:27 PM   
 By:   Jörn   (Member)

Hallo.

Just wondering, if some label plans to release a score by JEROME MOROSS in 2012?
It has been some time ago, since a new CD by this great composer was released!

Pearls like THE PROUD REBELL (only avaible as a LP-rip bootleg in bad quality), THE SHARKFIGHTERS, THE JAYHAWKERS, MOUNTAIN ROAD, VALLEY OF KWANG or even expanded re-releases of THE CARDINAL and THE WARLORD would be very welcome!

So, if there something planned, please let us know!

Best whishes

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2011 - 1:17 PM   
 By:   James MacMillan   (Member)

Actually, the year after next, 2013, would be the most pertinent time for any new releases or concert performances of Moross' music as it will be the 100th anniversary of his birth. Hopefully something will be "in the works" by now...

- James.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2011 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Personally, I think it's long past time for more Moross. You'd think they could at least put on CD some of that delightful chamber music the family recorded on LP years ago.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2011 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

As for THE PROUD REBEL, don't forget the legitimate CD release that was out:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proud-Rebel-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack-CD-OOP-Rare-Movie-Music-/170738504623?pt=Music_CDs&hash=item27c0ced3af

 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2011 - 9:02 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Given that this marvelous composer had a such a relatively small output ( he died way too young ), it's a real shame so few of his scores have had a release.

The Silva "Classic Film Scores of Jerome Moross" does a lot to address that problem, but its suites just whet the appetite for full releases. SHARKFIGHTERS and THE MOUNTAIN ROAD especially are delicious. And while I am grateful for the wonderul recording of VALLEY OF GWANGI, I really miss the great main title with the theme played on solo trumpet.

IMHO, the greatest "Americana" composer after Elmer Bernstein...and who knows how much competition he would have given Elmer if he had lived as long.

EDIT: Just checked over at IMDB...only 16 feature films as composer. Only 6 released as full CDs.

 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2011 - 5:55 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

There was a time when people spoke Moross' name in the same breath as Copland's.

I have a feeling they'll do so again in future generations, when it all settles.

He may have been of the Copland 'school' but he's unique and distinctive, and no matter how forceful, or menacing, or dark a dramatic situation may be, his music always has that quality of hopefuleness and emotional uplift. He can describe the tortured without torturing the listener.

If Tadlow do decide to record more ... or if Tribute feel like expanding their composer inventory ... every score he wrote is worthy of a full release.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2011 - 6:09 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

The War Lord is a huge favorite of mine. I still regularly listen to the Varese album release.

 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2011 - 9:37 PM   
 By:   Jörn   (Member)

The War Lord is a huge favorite of mine.


Mine too!

I didnt saw the film for years, but maybe someone know: Is the original LP (or the Varese CD) a re-recording (it was in those times, that composers re-recorded thire scores for an soundtrack-release) ?
And how many music is actual in the film? It runs 122 min, so there should be much more music as on the ost LP/CD.

I also liked very much the CHAMBER MUSIC, Moross did.
Truly great stuff.

To be honest: Moross had his own style and partly repeats himself very often (like many other ost-composers also do). But thats no problem, if you like his style.

His way of "Americana-Style" just makes you feel good!

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I didn't see the film for years, but maybe someone knows: Is the original LP (or the Varese CD) a re-recording (it was in those times, that composers re-recorded thire scores for an soundtrack-release) ?
And how many music is actual in the film? It runs 122 min, so there should be much more music as on the ost LP/CD.





The original album ran only about 25 minutes, quite short. A very fine listen, but some very key cues missing. One cue is mistitled, 'The Ascent to the Tower and Frustrated Love' is actually only 'Frustrated Love'. Passages are run together, as in 'The Reckoning' and the Finale.

When the film 'needed' re-editing, and Moross had theatrical commitments, he had to turn his leitmotives over to Hans J. Salter. Salter's music is good in the more intimate passages, but wrong for that kind of film in the battle scenes. If you count both composers' work together, the whole score runs to about 75 minutes, but that includes the ambient tinkly passages for the Druid grove, which don't need represented in full. The album has a few bars of that at the beginning of 'Forsaken Village'.

Salter's pieces overwhelm the score and change its nature though, and any reconstruction needs to trim them.

The score was clearly recorded at the same time as the album, by Gershenson, but it's edited differently, and not always the same performance. The Prelude has the pastorale placed before the processional love-theme instead of after, and there is no prologue music. Some cues, like 'Forsaken Village' are clearly different cuts, with extra bars here, deleted bars there.

It's important to pick up Silva Screen's Moross compilation CD 'Valley of the Gwangi' where Chris Palmer and James Fitzpatrick arranged another suite, including several passages not included on the album, such as the evocative 'What of the Future?'

A couple of rock bands have issued an electric guitar version of the main love theme, arranged by 'The Shadows'.

If you pick up the European 'Eureka' DVD, a stand-alone MFX track is included.

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 8:33 AM   
 By:   Jörn   (Member)

Thank you for the informations.

Maybe this strange combination of composers and mixes of the score make it for the labels so hard (and maybe uninteresting), to release a complete version.

Well, but maybe some day...

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 10:35 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

The War Lord is one that James Fitzpatrick talked about wanting to tackle in complete form...that is before he recently announced that Quo Vadis would probably be his last Tadlow re-recording.

Maybe Luc at Prometheus could finance this one? It sounds like it might actually fit on one disc...

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 4:27 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

well, WAR LORD just showed up in the used bin.....
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
smile

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 4:53 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

TO JORN- Yeah, i remember that LP of The proud rebel, sounds lousy, being a good businessman i warned my customers about that one.

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 7:18 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Salter's pieces overwhelm the score and change its nature though, and any reconstruction needs to trim them.



Salter's music is different, but cannot possibly "overwhelm" Moross' superb music. I totally disagree that the Salter pieces should not be represented in any reconstruction. They are a part of the final score and use Moross' themes. They don't deserve to be dismissed.

Salter is not in the same league with Moross, but his contribution to THE WAR LORD is among his better work...probably due to the quality of the film...far and above the stuff he usually worked on.

Just to add my 2 cents, it is hard to express just how wonderful this score is. While keeping true to that "Moross sound" that is familiar from Americana scores like THE BIG COUNTRY or VALLEY OF GWANGI, it perfectly captures a medieval tone and lush romanticism. Perfection.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2011 - 8:45 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Comparisons, as they say, are odious, and I prefer to think of composers of the caliber of Salter or Moross as each being suis generis. I bow to no one in my love and admiration for THE BIG COUNTRY, but I'd hate to have to live in a world that didn't also include BEND OF THE RIVER. And no one ever topped Salter and Skinner at bringing all those Universal B-horrors up to a higher level.

That said. permit me to put my oral historian hat on and share what little I can of Hans Salter's memories of THE WAR LORD. If the tone of the battle scenes' music seems not of-a-piece with the rest of the score, that is deliberate, and due to explicit instructions from the studio. At least, that's the way Hans remembered it. He told me that the executives were concerned that their film was not shaping up to be quite the Heston epic they were expecting, and they found the Moross score to be just a little too "soft" for the kind of picture they had in mind. (Never mind, of course, what Mr. Schaffner may have had in mind.)

As difficult as it may be to imagine in retrospect, Universal actually contracted to have Hans on hand while Alex North was scoring SPARTACUS, as a precaution in case North fell behind schedule. As we know, of course, this rescue never became necessary, and thank God for that. Similarly, Hans was brought in on THE WAR LORD. The schedule was getting tight, as I recall Hans telling me, and they assigned him to score the battle scenes. They definitely shared with him their concerns about the "soft" Moross score, and they gave Hans the prime directive to beef up the score with the battle scenes, to give the score "more balls" -- you should excuse the expression. Assessing the final result, Hans did feel that the battle scenes, with his music, gave the film somethying of a lift that it didn't have before.

Others may now differ, of course. But that's Hans's version of those events, for what it's worth.

 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2011 - 6:22 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Salter's music is different, but cannot possibly "overwhelm" Moross' superb music. I totally disagree that the Salter pieces should not be represented in any reconstruction. They are a part of the final score and use Moross' themes. They don't deserve to be dismissed.


There are many ways to overwhelm, not just quality. You can overwhelm in terms of dead weight and amplitude. I did not say they should not be represented. I said they need trimmed.

I'm basing this on the fact that I tried, in hyper-nerdsville mode, to 'reconstruct' the score for my own listening by splicing the Varese album, the Silva suite, and the MFX tracks from the DVD.

It didn't work, because the Salter battle music goes on too long, is very repetitive, and changes the whole nature of the score. I used to think as you do, because I ASSUMED what you're assuming, but this is a very delicate and precise feel that is required for that film, and though Salter's passages work well in the intimate scenes like Draco's death, overall, taking the battle scenes into account, as a listening stand-alone experience they capsize the ship. It's different when you hear the whole thing AS AN ALBUM. Remember too that Salter was a great orchestrator, but he's arranging Moross' own thematic material here for the most part.

Remember too that some battle scenes were added by the studio to make the thing more 'action-packed', and that those scenes needed music. The presence of that music then has the effect of padding out the thing with excess baggage from scenes that are themselves excess baggage from the 'concept' of the film, which is otherwise a very haunting one.

Try it and see. Simple Soundforge or Cool Edit Pro will suffice for the experiment.

 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2011 - 6:26 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Comparisons, as they say, are odious, and I prefer to think of composers of the caliber of Salter or Moross as each being suis generis. I bow to no one in my love and admiration for THE BIG COUNTRY, but I'd hate to have to live in a world that didn't also include BEND OF THE RIVER. And no one ever topped Salter and Skinner at bringing all those Universal B-horrors up to a higher level.

That said. permit me to put my oral historian hat on and share what little I can of Hans Salter's memories of THE WAR LORD. If the tone of the battle scenes' music seems not of-a-piece with the rest of the score, that is deliberate, and due to explicit instructions from the studio. At least, that's the way Hans remembered it. He told me that the executives were concerned that their film was not shaping up to be quite the Heston epic they were expecting, and they found the Moross score to be just a little too "soft" for the kind of picture they had in mind. (Never mind, of course, what Mr. Schaffner may have had in mind.)

As difficult as it may be to imagine in retrospect, Universal actually contracted to have Hans on hand while Alex North was scoring SPARTACUS, as a precaution in case North fell behind schedule. As we know, of course, this rescue never became necessary, and thank God for that. Similarly, Hans was brought in on THE WAR LORD. The schedule was getting tight, as I recall Hans telling me, and they assigned him to score the battle scenes. They definitely shared with him their concerns about the "soft" Moross score, and they gave Hans the prime directive to beef up the score with the battle scenes, to give the score "more balls" -- you should excuse the expression. Assessing the final result, Hans did feel that the battle scenes, with his music, gave the film somethying of a lift that it didn't have before.

Others may now differ, of course. But that's Hans's version of those events, for what it's worth.




Gosh, great anecdotes, Preston.

What he's saying is that the studio wanted a macho thing, whilst the art people didn't. Isn't that as true today as ever?!

 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2011 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Comparisons, as they say, are odious, and I prefer to think of composers of the caliber of Salter or Moross as each being suis generis. I bow to no one in my love and admiration for THE BIG COUNTRY, but I'd hate to have to live in a world that didn't also include BEND OF THE RIVER. And no one ever topped Salter and Skinner at bringing all those Universal B-horrors up to a higher level.



My choice or words regarding Salter probably dissed him more than I intended, as he is indeed a top-notch composer who definitely brought more class to many pictures than they had inherently. Let's just say I prefer Moross' style.
And, of course, I had forgotten about BEND OF THE RIVER...a great movie with an excellent score. Too bad we have to live in a world with no CD representation of that score.

There are many ways to overwhelm, not just quality. You can overwhelm in terms of dead weight and amplitude. I did not say they should not be represented. I said they need trimmed.


I stand corrected. I read "trimmed" as "eliminated". I agree that there is no need to present ALL of Salter's music and that would probably throw the presentation off balance.

As is apparent to anyone who owns the early Intrada release "CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON: A Symphony of Film Music by Hans J. Salter", some of THE WAR LORD'S action music was adapted from Salter's 1954 score to THE BLACK SHIELD OF FALWORTH. I don't remember that film well at all, but the music works in THE WAR LORD.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2011 - 7:03 PM   
 By:   Eugene Iemola   (Member)

I could not live without my copies (CD & LP) of The Golden Apple by Jerome Moross. If you're needin' a fix of Moross, then, please, by all means, get familiar with this masterpiece. It's not a film score, it's something greater than a film score.

Just saying. It's a matter of taste. It's a musical he wrote with John Latouche that transplants Homer's Ulysses to a time in America just after the Spanish-American War, circa 1901. I hope Bruce will chime in here and give his opinion on this show and why it never made it to Broadway.

When I say each musical cue is a priceless gem, my favorite being "It's The Going Home Together", that I doubt anyone in this thread would disagree. I think you'll be hooked right from the Overture. So much music was left off of the old album (which the CD is a remaster of) that there are spoken passages recorded just for the album to try and bridge the jumps in its musical narrative.

Anyway, all of the music is Moross, and by that I mean "Americana". It's made even more lovely by the lyrics and the performances of Priscilla Gillette, Stephen Douglass, Kaye Ballard, Jack Whiting, Bibi Osterwald, Jonathan Lucas and especially Portia Nelson.

You made me want to go put it on now.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2011 - 11:12 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

I still hope for a complete recording, such as has been done for such other unorthodox musical plays as ALLEGRO by Rodgers and Hammerstein and the Gershwins' STRIKE UP THE BAND. At the very least somebody should put the other LP recording of GOLDEN APPLE on CD.

One standard emerged from this score, "Lazy Afternoon."

 
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