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 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

If nothing else, wouldn't you have expected "The Hustler" by now?

Other than "Baby Doll," none of his film scores have appeared on CD. (His instrumental albums have been released by some EU labels).

We've about exhausted Les Baxter. Now there may be a flood of Mancini releases.

Much as I admire all the stuff the specialty labels have been putting out in recent years, the lack of Kenyon Hopkins has been a major oversight. By the time they get around to Kenyon Hopkins, will there be anyone left who remembers him?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 9:20 AM   
 By:   FalkirkBairn   (Member)

It may only be a matter of time. THE HUSTLER, THE FUGITIVE KIND and THE STRANGE ONE have all been released as digital releases.

 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 9:31 AM   
 By:   Mr. Vyse   (Member)

THE HUSTLER was actually released on CD by El/Cherry a few months ago.

http://www.amazon.com/Hustler-Various-Artists/dp/B006GE6ATE/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1338564468&sr=1-1

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....Other than "Baby Doll," none of his film scores have appeared on CD. (His instrumental albums have been released by some EU labels).....


I guess you must have missed the very nice expansion of the soundtrack for THE FUGITIVE KIND, which Lukas/FSM assembled for the MGM Soundtrack Treasury Box 03.....

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   mrchriswell   (Member)

FSM included Fugitive Kind in its Treasury box. Isn't Lilith around somewhere, or is that a b**t?

Would love more, but his name recognition is probably pretty low even among collectors. The most noteworthy film he was involved with, other than Hustler, is probably 12 Angry Men and there can't be more than 5 minutes of score in that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   mrchriswell   (Member)

Manderlay beat me to it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 10:03 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

I think that, even when Hopkins was actively scoring films, he was an acquired taste among film music afficionadoes. "Baby Doll" may be an exception. I remember seeing a lot of Hopkins' albums in cut-out bins, but this is the first thread I've ever seen mention his work.

I think the specialty labels believe they have to approach his work very carefully...either including him on a double-bill with another, more popular, name (including him in a box set of multiple scores) or selling him on the strength of the film he scored.

It's sad, but true, that too few people today remember his work.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 3:57 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Let’s look at the Hopkins LPs that haven’t been released:

East Side, West Side [Columbia] - Owned by Sony
Eleven Against the Ice [RCA] - Owned by Sony
The Hustler [Kapp] – Owned by Universal Music Group
Lilith [Colpix] – Owned by Warner Music Group
Mister Buddwing [Verve] – Owned by Universal Music Group
The Reporter [Columbia] – Owned by Sony
The Strange One [Coral] - – Owned by Universal Music Group
This Property Is Condemned [Verve] – Owned by Universal Music Group
The Yellow Canary [Verve] – Owned by Universal Music Group

As is often the case, Universal Music Group is the big offender here. No Frank Skinner from them . . . and no Kenyon Hopkins. "The Strange One" (1957), "Eleven Against the Ice" (1958), and "The Hustler" (1961) are the only LPs that currently fall under the European 50-year rule, as evidenced by the el Records release of "The Hustler," mentioned above.

 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 4:04 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Bob, I think you've nailed it on the lack of availability of the titles.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 4:58 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Let’s look at the Hopkins scores that have not been previously released, and their prospects:

12 Angry Men (1957, United Artists) – A very brief score (basically opening and closing titles) whose tracks probably no longer exist.

Wild River (1960, 20th Century Fox) – Still possible.

Wild In the Country (1961, 20th Century Fox) – This is an Elvis Presley film that has had an RCA LP/CD release of Presley’s songs. Whether that would complicate a score release is anyone’s guess.

Doctor, You’ve Got To Be Kidding (1967, M-G-M) – This should have been available to FSM. Maybe because it’s a comedy, there was not much interest by Lukas.

The Borgia Stick (1967, Universal) – TV movie. Possible, I guess.

A Lovely Way To Die (1968, Universal) – Possible, I guess.

The Secret of Michelangelo (1968, ABC Productions) – TV movie, presumably now owned by Disney.

The Tree (1969) – An independent film written, produced, directed, and distributed by someone named Robert Guenette. He undoubtedly owns it as well.

The First Time (1969, United Artists) – If tracks exist for this Mirisch-Rogallan production, they should be with M-G-M.

Downhill Racer (1969, Paramount) – Still possible.

The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau (1970, David L. Wolper / Metromedia) – Hopkins scored two episodes of this series: “The Water Planet” and “The Night of the Squid.” If Wolper controls these, they probably lie with Warner Bros. If Metromedia controls them, M-G-M is the likely place to look.

The New Healers (1972, Paramount) – TV movie. Still possible.

The World Turned Upside Down (1973, ABC / David L. Wolper) – TV documentary. Could be with Warner Bros. (Wolper) or Disney (ABC).

Lincoln: Trial By Fire (1974, ABC / David L. Wolper) – TV documentary. Could be with Warner Bros. (Wolper) or Disney (ABC).

ABC Afterschool Special: Dinky Hocker (1979, ABC) – Disney? Hopkins probably got the scoring job for this because Robert Guenette was one of the producers.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 5:05 PM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

I`m not a suspicious person by nature, but I am beginning to think `Bob Dimucci` is a screen name for the computer from COLOSSUS:THE FORBIN PROJECT, repurposed to film history uses. big grin I don`t even care for the subject composer`s work, yet this is fascinating research, thanks for posting it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 7:02 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



I guess you must have missed the very nice expansion of the soundtrack for THE FUGITIVE KIND, which Lukas/FSM assembled for the MGM Soundtrack Treasury Box 03.....


Sorry, but that simply does not count. Including an underrepresented composer in a limited edition box set of a bunch of stuff I don't necessarily need or want by a variety of composers does not count as "releasing an album." I don't know whose idea this was, but it was a poor choice.

So, as far as I'm concerned, "The Fugitive Kind" has never been on CD, expanded or not.

So, back to my original question:

Why have the labels skipped over Kenyon Hopkins?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 7:29 PM   
 By:   Jameson281   (Member)

So, back to my original question:

Why have the labels skipped over Kenyon Hopkins?


Probably because he's not very well known, and most of his films aren't well known, so he's not going to be a big seller.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2012 - 7:35 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

So, back to my original question:

Why have the labels skipped over Kenyon Hopkins?


Probably because he's not very well known, and most of his films aren't well known, so he's not going to be a big seller.


Too bad. He's about 1,000 times better than John Williams.

EDIT: OK, maybe not 1,000 times better, but...

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2012 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

So, back to my original question:

Why have the labels skipped over Kenyon Hopkins?


Hi Onya.

You realize, I hope, that most of the soundtrack collectors here on this board either 1) never had an LP collection, or 2) no longer own vinyl record albums or turntables, or 3) were born in or after the 1970s after Kenyon Hopkins ceased scoring feature films.

All of the films Hopkins scored are pre-JAWS/pre-Spielberg and many of them are black-and-white. That's at least 2 reasons why most current collectors have no interest in any potential CD re-issues of Hopkins' soundtracks.

The type of film that Hopkins was typically associated with is the "literary" play-to-film adaptations.
BABY DOLL & THE FUGITIVE KIND & THIS PROPERTY IS CONDEMMED were all based upon Tennessee Williams (again this reflects pre-1970s tastes - how many films have been made during the past 40 years based on Tennessee Williams and how many people under age 40 watch theatrically-orientated material?).
12 ANGRY MEN was a feature version of Reginald Rose's TV-play of the same name.
THE STRANGE ONE was based on a novel by Calder Willingham (who dat? did he do any 1990s CGI?)
Both THE HUSTLER and LILITH are films by Robert Rossen (one of my favorite American directors), but Rossen is not remembered with much fondness.

The other significant portion of Kenyon Hopkins' discography are from forgotten televsion programs: THE REPORTER and EAST SIDE/WEST SIDE do not possess cult followings, and has anybody ever seen that TV special ELEVEN AGAINST THE ICE??? I own the RCA Victor LP of ELEVEN AGAINST THE ICE and it may even be my 2nd favorite soundtrack by Hopkins, but I am afraid that, just like with Alex North's AFRICA, I'll go to my grave never getting to see this one-time TV program...

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2012 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

I have to agree with Tonerow. There have been scant chances to sample Hopkins work over the years. Consider these feature films:

THE YELLOW CANARY - never on video
DOCTOR, YOU"VE GOT TO BE KIDDING - never on video
WILD RIVER - not on U.S. video
A LOVELY WAY TO DIE - finally released as a MOD DVD in April 2011
MISTER BUDDWING - finally released as a MOD DVD in July 2011
THE FIRST TIME - finally released as a MOD DVD in December 2011

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2012 - 4:59 PM   
 By:   blue15   (Member)

Seems like Kritzerland would be an ideal label for some Kenyon Hopkins.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2012 - 5:16 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Seems like Kritzerland would be an ideal label for some Kenyon Hopkins.

I'd agree. But Kritzerland doesn't seem to have inroads with UMG or Sony, who control most of Hopkins' LPs. But since Kritzerland does deal with MGM, Paramount, and now Fox, perhaps "The First Time" (MGM), "Downhill Racer" (Paramount), or "Wild River" (Fox) are possibilities.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2012 - 5:22 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Kritzerland has released stuff that is generally in the "nervous jazz" category, and some of Hopkins' stuff is in that bag.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2012 - 5:39 PM   
 By:   Essankay   (Member)

I have to agree with Tonerow. There have been scant chances to sample Hopkins work over the years. Consider these feature films:

WILD RIVER - not on U.S. video


Bob, WILD RIVER is (was?) available in that huge R1 Kazan box set released by Fox, but since one must buy almost every other Kazan film to get it I agree that people have scant chance to see the film and hear the score. Poor Kenyon Hopkins.

 
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