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 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 9:43 AM   
 By:   Mr Greg   (Member)

Don't want the other thread to derail!

So - upshot is that I looove the "old" sequence, I find Tim Borton's movie to be an odd effort but an interesting curio nonetheless, and I think that "Rise....." is the best Planet of the Apes movie since 1968.

I also mentioned that I would love to see the new franchise continue for another 2 or 3 installments, and conclude with a proper filming of Pierre Boulle's original souce novel (only the animated series has got even close to the spirit of the novel). Maybe end there? Maybe not...

I would also suggest that "Conquest....." is easily the most underrated of the original series - especially with it's now (thankfully) restored original ending. So much more impact...

Was never big on the live-actionTV show, but I should catch up with it sometime. How's best to watch it - the edited-into-TV-movies versions? Or as straight episodes?

Any thoughts?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   (Member)   (Member)

Don't want the other thread to derail!

So - upshot is that I looove the "old" sequence, I find Tim Borton's movie to be an odd effort but an interesting curio nonetheless, and I think that "Rise....." is the best Planet of the Apes movie since 1968.

I also mentioned that I would love to see the new franchise continue for another 2 or 3 installments, and conclude with a proper filming of Pierre Boulle's original souce novel (only the animated series has got even close to the spirit of the novel). Maybe end there? Maybe not...

I would also suggest that "Conquest....." is easily the most underrated of the original series - especially with it's now (thankfully) restored original ending. So much more impact...

Was never big on the live-actionTV show, but I should catch up with it sometime. How's best to watch it - the edited-into-TV-movies versions? Or as straight episodes?

Any thoughts?




What about "Planet of the Rapes"? wink

From "The Dictator"
http://youtu.be/3AAvRyro6_Y

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 10:10 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

Greg, I'm a huge Apes fan and have been right from the early 70s when the films were re-released at the same time the TV show aired on Sunday nights. In those days though the Ape films ran in very haphazard double bills so in order I actually saw Escape / Planet / Conquest / Beneath then finally Battle.

Although I love the original films conceptually, I only thinknthe first is a brilliant movie which still holds up today (absolutely cracking script). I agree Conquest is under-rated though.

Obviously Battle is the weakest of the films by a country mile but the original draft by regular Apes scribe Paul Dehn was very very interesting because it brought the series full circle, with the apes slaughtering all the adult humans and casting all the children out into the area that would become the Forbidden Zone - The Lawgiver also effectively eliminates all history prior to that event and re-writes it to his own ends (in what became the sacred scrolls). But sadly Dehn was ill (he died shortly after) and when he couldnt polish the script they started from scratch and ended up with a movie that really adds nothing to the Apes canon.

Much as I'm against remakes / reboots et al, I always kind of figured that the entire Apes saga could effectively be re-done (perhaps as a series of TV movies). Planet and Beneath could stand almost as they are (although Brent or Taylor would have to survive to make it credidble that Cornelius, Zira and Milo could escape) and Escape could be largely the same too (albeit in a more serious vein). Conquest could have been kept essentially the same, but with an added back story about nuclear war. Battle could then unfold in a very brutal way the way Dehn intended.

I hated Burton's film with a passion - literally there is nothing about the film I liked. Even the make-up which people raved about wasn't really that much of an advance over John Chambers' appliances. And that ending.... oh dear.

I had very low expectations for Rise but I love the movie. The only thing that gave me an issue is where the hell did all those apes come from???? Are there really THAT many apes in San Francisco??? But that aside, I thought it was terrific and love the set up for humans losing mental facilties due to the virus. Such a great conciet that the same virus which gives the monkeys advanced intelligence also has the negative effect on the human race.

And did you note the References to the missing spaceship Icarus under the command of George Taylor? How cool a set up is that? Those astronauts could come back just a few years after the events in Rise to find the human race decimated, the Earth partially destroyed (by a nuclear accident this time rather than a war - virus-infected technicians having forgotten how to prevent a meltdown) and apes as the dominant species. Now that I would love to see!

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

As to the TV series, it doesnt really matter whether you watch the individual episodes or the TV movie edits, because the latter are very obviously stitched together so you can almost see the joins!

The episodes are available on DVD but I dont think the TV film edits are. However, if you are able to find them online check out the additional footage of Roddy McDowall as an aged Galen which tops and tails each one.

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 10:16 AM   
 By:   Mr Greg   (Member)

From another thread...

Greg its been a long time since I saw the animated shownand even longer since ai read the novel but really I can't think of any connections between the two apart from the monkeys.

The depiction of Ape society in the 'toon is the closest that any medium has come to Boulle's vision. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post, sorry - I don't mean in terms of plot/story etc - I mean in terms of how we see the different cultures on screen.


Mike - so much to comment on, but yes I loved the set-up in "Rise" regarding the virus and the mentions of the space mission (as well as it going missing)...I thought the final scene at the airport was perhps a tad unnecessary but OK - it's just fine and we know that it's going to hit the fan. I'm extremely interested in where "Dawn...." is going to go...are we going to see the beginnings of Ape culture that Boulle detailed? Different species, different roles? In what form will mankind survive the virus? So many possibilities now...

I would have gone to see "Rise" however it turned out, but was delighted to see such a good film.....


....but yeah, lots of apes!

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

One thing about the Apes movies which always just has me laughing hysterically is in Beneath.

Ok so Nova is wandering about the Forbidden Zone on Taylor's horse. And just so happens to come across Brent. Now that I can just about accept (maybe the Forbidden Zone is actually just THAT small!).

Now of course Nova can't talk. But fortunately she is wearing Taylor's old ANSA dog tags and so Brent knows she has been with his fellow astronaut.

Waaaaaaaaait a second! Taylor's dog tags?????? Where were they in the first movie when he was wearing nothing but a torn rag or standing butt naked?

He obviously had them well hidden in a very private place. Perhaps thats why Heston runs in such an odd way during his attempted escape from Ape city!!!!

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 10:27 AM   
 By:   Mr Greg   (Member)

One thing about the Apes movies which always just has me laughing hysterically is in Beneath.

Ok so Nova is wandering about the Forbidden Zone on Taylor's horse. And just so happens to come across Brent. Now that I can just about accept (maybe the Forbidden Zone is actually just THAT small!).

Now of course Nova can't talk. But fortunately she is wearing Taylor's old ANSA dog tags and so Brent knows she has been with his fellow astronaut.

Waaaaaaaaait a second! Taylor's dog tags?????? Where were they in the first movie when he was wearing nothing but a torn rag or standing butt naked?

He obviously had them well hidden in a very private place. Perhaps thats why Heston runs in such an odd way during his attempted escape from Ape city!!!!


Haha - I'd never thought of that!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

I saw Planet of the Apes for the first time at the Smithtown Theater in Smithtown, Long Island during its initial release in May 1968. I was a little boy, and the move thoroughly hypnotized me. The ending was like having a bucket of cold water splashed in your face. I got the message. My parents were impressed, too. After it was over, they went outside and bought tickets to see it again.

Thereafter, I was a repeat-ticket-buyer at the sequels and saw the original whenever it was re-released. When the Apes marathon came in 1974, I spent Saturdays and Sundays in the theater. I went in for Planet of the Apes at 11 am, watched all the sequels, and then stayed for Planet of the Apes a second time. I did this two weekends in a row, according to my log.

Not only is Planet of the Apes one of my top movie-going experiences, I consider it one of the best films ever made. Period.

Screenwriter Rod Serling is responsible for turning the bland novel into the Planet of the Apes we know and love today. It reflects his style and intellectual concerns from The Twilight Zone, only for the big screen. Thematically they're the same. The brilliant ending was Serling's idea, and it has an antecedent in an episode of The Twilight Zone. Forget the title of the episode. Serling was a genius.

I agree Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1972) is under-rated. We caught up with that one while on vacation. We were driving down the highway in Texas on our way back to New York when we saw the drive-in. Naturally the parents pulled-over, turned around and took us to the latest Ape movie. The uncut version on Blu-ray is the better film.

I wish Fox had filmed the version of Battle of the Planet of the Apes (1973) that Mike-J describes above. I'd love to study that script. Sounds like a better film. But I have come to appreciate Battle more and more over the years. It tells a wiser, smarter story than most fans realize, although there is too much preaching and I always found Paul Williams obnoxious.

Burton's remake is beautifully designed and photographed but the story and direction are crap. it deserved to bomb at the box-office and on home video. Burton has no story sense and no judgment. He'd be more effective as a producer. I have a deep-rooted aversion to his fetish mentality.

I also agree that Rise of the Planet of the Apes is an intelligent and satisfying reboot. I went in with sub-zero expectations, but the film surprised me, I guess because I've been so disappointed in current films lately. Let's hope the same creative team comes up a worthy sequel and that Fox leaves them alone to make it.

The advance teaser one-sheets:







Do you want to see more?

Richard

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 11:08 AM   
 By:   That Neil Guy   (Member)

Mike

Have you read this yet? Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes: http://amzn.to/Ozh4Vy

"Set during the classic 1968 film, Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes tells the story of what happened between the scenes and centers on the astronaut Landon, Gorilla police chief Marcus, and Chimpanzee scientist Dr. Milo"

I've been intrigued by this since I first saw it announced, but have yet to pull the trigger on actually buying it.

Anyone out there read Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes? Opinions?

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 11:14 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

Mike

Have you read this yet? Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes: http://amzn.to/Ozh4Vy

"Set during the classic 1968 film, Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes tells the story of what happened between the scenes and centers on the astronaut Landon, Gorilla police chief Marcus, and Chimpanzee scientist Dr. Milo"

I've been intrigued by this since I first saw it announced, but have yet to pull the trigger on actually buying it.

Anyone out there read Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes? Opinions?



I'd not heard of this before but absolutely interested in reading it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 11:18 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

a proper filming of Pierre Boulle's original souce novel

Am I alone in thinking only Terry Gilliam would be able to pull this off?

 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 11:46 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

Here's a very interesting photo of a deleted scene from Escape taken from the Japanese laser disc.


It was the original start of the movie - as the astronauts (ape-o-nauts) watch the Earth get destroyed just after they've launched in Taylor's ship.

The original story boards showed the exterior of the ship being buffetted by shockwaves as the Earth in 3955 exploded following Taylor's detonation of the Alpha Omega bomb.

But due to budget cuts all of the FX shots were cancelled.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 30, 2012 - 12:38 PM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

Fascinating. How come we didn't get that footage over here. A pity they didn't finish the special effects digitally and show it to us on the Blu-ray, if only as an option.

A pity Rod Serling didn't novelize the (final) screenplay. It would have outsold Pierre Boulle's novel a thousand to one. Which I suppose is why it wasn't done. All the novelizations were extremely well-wrote.

A double-feature re-release to prep ticket-buyers for the forthcoming Escape:

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 10:29 AM   
 By:   Mr Greg   (Member)

Keep the posters coming - great to see them and some of these are new to me.

Anyone ever read the "Planet of the Men" script? I've never actually taken the plunge...lord knows why...just, time I guess!

Here's the synopsis and links to the script (I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this link?) -> http://planetoftheapes.wikia.com/wiki/Planet_of_the_Men

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 12:57 PM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)



Anyone ever read the "Planet of the Men" script? I've never actually taken the plunge...lord knows why...just, time I guess!


I've read it - its quite hard going and not overly cinematic. But the core idea is quite cool and the idea of Zaius reverting to a primate state is certainly interesting.

If you haven't got it the book I'd recommend to all Apes fans is Planet Of The Apes Revisited. Fabulous book packed full of interesting info on the development of the films and exploring a number of discarded ideas for sequels. One of the best movie books I've ever read and without questionthe best Apes book ever.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Planet-Apes-Revisited-Behind-The-Scenes-Classic/dp/0312252390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346443099&sr=8-1

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 1:04 PM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 1:27 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Great picture Mike_J. The ship interior and exterior always reminded me of the front section of Concorde. All gathering dust now.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)



Hey!

This poster was going to be my next post!


Richard

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

Of the many, many things I love about the Apes movies, high up is the production design, especially of the first two movies.  And most of all I love Bill Creber's design for the ANSA spaceship.

And I'm not alone in this.  There are entire websites dedicated to this great screen spaceship, which is where the name Icarus has come from for the ship.  It isnt canon but the ship is now well known as Icarus - it is even name checked in Rise.

Of course in Planet you only see it sticking out of Lake Powell.  But Leon Shamroy's wonderful camera work (constantly roving, often from a helicopter) just make the ship look very majestic.


Ok so the internal geometry of the ship bear no relation to the exterior but the full size prop just looks fantastic.  Watch out for a blooper when Dodge blow the hatch incidentally - both windscreens fall out!

Next time you see the ship (now Brent's) is in Beneath and it is the same full size prop as in the original film, albeit now surrounded by some unconvincing engine wreckage.  But it still looks great.



In the last cienematic outing for the ship, in Escape, its very beaten up.  During shooting in Southern California, the ship broke free of it's moorings and the nose cone snapped off and sunk, so in the scenes of the ship on the low loader a very cheap looking nose was added and it shows.



The prop appeared one last time in the pilot of the TV show, Escape To Tomorrow.  


After that the full scale prop sat rotting and rusting on the Fox back lot for years.  The exact fate of the ship remains unknown but there is a rumour it was sold off to a restaurant and was lost in a fire. Such a shame.

My late father - who put up with my passion for the Apes movies when I was in my early teens - was an aircraft designer by profession and was always telling me how wrong the design was for Taylor's / Brent's / Milo's / Virdon's ship.  And he was probably right (he did after all do some work on the space shuttle).  But with all due respect to my dear old dad, who cares?  The design LOOKS fantastic and to me at least really does look like it could transport man to a distant planet.

Best movie speaceship ever!!!!

 
 Posted:   Aug 31, 2012 - 2:03 PM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)



Hey!

This poster was going to be my next post!


GreAPE minds think alike lol

 
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