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Hello everyone
This is my first time so apologies in advance
if I get something wrong!
The UK release of 'Cleopatra' is a joy, but the
extras don't answer one question- did North
score the 5hrs 20 min version shown to Zanuck
after he rejected the 2 film option at 6 hrs+. I
may be wrong, but this version would have included
the reshoots. Manklewicz would surely have tried
his luck to get as close to his desired version, to again
be told to cut to the 251 min one we have now on bluray.
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I don't believe North scored the longer version--what I recall from working on the album is that there were only a few tiny bits and pieces left off of that; I'm sure someone would have remarked about finding another hour or two of score!
Yes, there was only one major two-and-one-half minute source cue left off, "Palace Music" (which also appears prominently in the accompanying 2 hour "making-of" documentary, and which was derived from a earlier North source cue for "Spartacus") and a few fanfares, I believe. All of this would have fit on the 2 disc set, except that Varese had a strict 75- or 76-minute maximum CD time restriction at the time.
There was talk (and that's all it was, talk) about restoring the picture to its "full" 2-evening intended version with the hope that North would write additional music, but nothing ever came of it.
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Fellas! Fellas! WHERE are your manners?
WELCOME to the FSM Boards, peterhaywood!
...and I would have loved to have had a couple more hours of North's music for Cleopatra!
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Ran into Nick Redman at one point, and asked him about a Blu-Ray CLEOPATRA, suggesting it for Twilight Time. He said that Fox was "already working on it," but had been working on it "for the past 5 years," and doubted whether it would include any extras.
CLEOPATRA has been released on Blu-Ray in England, I believe, but I know nothing about it beyond that.
I once stumbled on a website devoted to Elizabeth Taylor, which touted a "Restored CLEOPATRA," consisting of a long scroll-down minute description of the film, accompanied by numerous photos, some of them in color.
http.//taylortribute.com/Elizabeth%Taylor%20-%20Restored%20Cleopatra%20page%2001.html
Then there was another one I found, which, as I recall, had more photos but less text.
www/taylortribute.com/ElizabethTaylorCleopatra.htm
Click on the "Cleopatra" title.
(Hope it works...)
After setting them up on this thread, I saw they're not highlighted in blue. The sites are still there, just checked them. Maybe if you Google "The Restored Cleopatra," you'll find them.
Good luck.
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Posted: |
Jan 22, 2013 - 10:50 AM
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By: |
manderley
(Member)
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Ran into Nick Redman at one point, and asked him about a Blu-Ray CLEOPATRA, suggesting it for Twilight Time. He said that Fox was "already working on it," but had been working on it "for the past 5 years," and doubted whether it would include any extras.
CLEOPATRA has been released on Blu-Ray in England, I believe, but I know nothing about it beyond that.
I once stumbled on a website devoted to Elizabeth Taylor, which touted a "Restored CLEOPATRA," consisting of a long scroll-down minute description of the film, accompanied by numerous photos, some of them in color.
http.//taylortribute.com/Elizabeth%Taylor%20-%20Restored%20Cleopatra%20page%2001.html
Then there was another one I found, which, as I recall, had more photos but less text.
www/taylortribute.com/ElizabethTaylorCleopatra.htm
Click on the "Cleopatra" title.
(Hope it works...)
After setting them up on this thread, I saw they're not highlighted in blue. The sites are still there, just checked them. Maybe if you Google "The Restored Cleopatra," you'll find them.
Good luck.
I think, John, maybe you just typed the URL wrong. Try this one:
http://taylortribute.com/Elizabeth%20Taylor%20-%20Restored%20Cleopatra%20page%2001.html
Quite extensive info, by the way......
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Posted: |
Jan 22, 2013 - 11:22 AM
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By: |
CinemaScope
(Member)
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Ran into Nick Redman at one point, and asked him about a Blu-Ray CLEOPATRA, suggesting it for Twilight Time. He said that Fox was "already working on it," but had been working on it "for the past 5 years," and doubted whether it would include any extras.
CLEOPATRA has been released on Blu-Ray in England, I believe, but I know nothing about it beyond that.
Not just England, but all of Europe as well, it's multi-region & quite cheap. I'm (very) sure that it will be released in America this year for the 50th anniversary (June 12th 2013). If Fox makes the picture a bit richer (it's a bit cool for my liking), I might import it from America to the UK.
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Funny, looks to me as if I put down exactly what manderly put down.
Check out the other site too; it has more color photos.
I found these years ago while searching on the internet, and find them fascinating.
(They seem to have access to the screenplay. I'd also love to see the original screenplay to HAWAII, which was reported to have been conceived as a much longer film.)
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[startquote}
I have a copy of the full script, and as much as fans would like to see a longer version of the film, most of the excised material is simply tangential material that adds additional explication to the plot, and as such wasn't critical.
I'd love to have a copy of the script. It's one of my favorite of the ancient spectaculars from the period, not least because of the Manckiewicz wit surfacing every now and then. ("As an almost all Greek thing, I am flattered.")
I have scripts to both BEN-HUR and THE EGYPTIAN, which present longer scenes, beginning earlier, ending later, than in the released film. But they're always interesting to read. As I said earlier, I'd also love to read the HAWAII script, if only to see what was originally envisioned.
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I don't know what's so hard to understand about the motion picture industry. When a film is finished, the editor, who may have been assembling from the beginning, shows an assemblage of all shot footage, edited roughly together. That is called a rough assembly and every movie has one. It is NEVER EVER intended to be seen by anyone outside of the director and producer and whomever they may wish to show it to. It is not an edited version of the film. That's what the six-hour Cleopatra was. It doesn't exist. After that, the editor and director go in the editing room and the real editing begins and they whittle down and find their movie.
So, it's sheer and utter poppycock that there was ever a completed six-hour version or anything like that and by completed I mean a polished edited film. Mr. North NEVER scored a six-hour version because he was not involved in the process at that time. He would have been involved when the film was in a much more finished form, at which time he would have spotted the film with the director.
The UK Blu-ray is nice in terms of clarity, but not so hot in terms of its way too brown color. This should look as good and as rich and as saturated as The Ten Commandments.
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I bought the region-free Blu-ray through Amazon U.K. (and as an aside, my most recent order through an Amazon European site was shipped from within the U.S.). The disc is spectacular, and I'm not sure why Fox is dragging it's heels on a U.S. release (possibly to box it and charge a premium?).
The story was pretty well documented that Mankiewicz originally envisioned two separate three-hour films. Zanuck nixed that and took the film away, eventually realizing that only Mankiewicz would know how to assemble the film. Mankiewicz reluctantly returned and trimmed the film to its four hour road show length. This was further trimmed to around three hours for the London premiere and also for the eventual general release. Much of this info is contained in the excellent documentary that is included in the Blu-ray and previous DVD release of the film.
I think it's highly unlikely that North ever scored the 6 hour version, despite the "letter" that Capps claims to have. I have copies of some of North's sketches that a friend provided and there are no excisions, something that would surely be done rather than re-writing every cue that needed to be shortened. If anyone can turn up even a single sketch for a scene that's not in the 4 hour version I'd like to hear of it.
I have a copy of the full script, and as much as fans would like to see a longer version of the film, most of the excised material is simply tangential material that adds additional explication to the plot, and as such wasn't critical.
To be very clear here, Joe Caps doesn't have any such letter. He claims that a friend or a friend of a friend purportedly saw a letter. That's a little too far away from the source to take seriously and no, North never scored a six-hour version because there never was a six-hour version other than the rough assembly, which is not a finished, edited film, it's merely all the shot footage strung together in show order.
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I don't know what's so hard to understand about the motion picture industry. When a film is finished, the editor, who may have been assembling from the beginning, shows an assemblage of all shot footage, edited roughly together. That is called a rough assembly and every movie has one. It is NEVER EVER intended to be seen by anyone outside of the director and producer and whomever they may wish to show it to. It is not an edited version of the film. That's what the six-hour Cleopatra was. It doesn't exist. After that, the editor and director go in the editing room and the real editing begins and they whittle down and find their movie.
So, it's sheer and utter poppycock that there was ever a completed six-hour version or anything like that and by completed I mean a polished edited film. Mr. North NEVER scored a six-hour version because he was not involved in the process at that time. He would have been involved when the film was in a much more finished form, at which time he would have spotted the film with the director.
The UK Blu-ray is nice in terms of clarity, but not so hot in terms of its way too brown color. This should look as good and as rich and as saturated as The Ten Commandments.
Everything you say is true, except for the last paragraph.
There's no reason in the world for a Mankiewicz-directed "Cleopatra" printed on DeLuxe-Eastman stock to look like the DeMille-directed "Ten Commandments," printed in generally storybook tones in dye-transfer Technicolor. Two completely different animals. What the bluish-brownish Blu-ray of "Cleo" needs is truer, more accurate color, not more saturated color.
And I have a copy of the complete version of the film script (about 330 pages), whose edited footage may, or may not, have run to six hours (there's no way to accurately gauge that). What I can tell you is that the shorter, four-hour, cut loses some nuance and important subplots. The film will likely never be brought closer to the way Mankiewicz conceived it, and that's a great shame.
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