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Posted: |
Mar 22, 2013 - 6:14 PM
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By: |
Eric Paddon
(Member)
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Okay, call me confused. I've just seen the specs for this at SAE and if I'm reading this right the expanded cut does NOT have the audio option of the original Amfitheatrof score. Instead I have to watch the short version in order to hear this. If this is the case, then it's NO SALE with me. Even though the film is still a narrative mess, the added scenes did strengthen a couple of plot points and I would rather watch this version from now on than the shorter one, but I do NOT want to listen to a score that was composed decades after the fact any more than I'd want to watch compromised episodes of "The Fugitive" with replacement music. The DVD gave me the option of the original score with the long cut and if that's the only way I can enjoy the film that way, then that's the only version I'll own. Thumbs down to Twilight Time for doing this when they didn't have to.
I'll take this opportunity to reiterate a point I've made before: Amfitheatrof has gotten the biggest bum rap of any film composer I've seen in terms of a score being blamed for a film's failing with this film. Yes, I'm the first to acknowledge that the title song clashes with the tone, but the score and its main theme are fine overall with nothing inappropriate to the visuals. Since Peckinpah was not the producer of this film, IMO what his sentiments were on the score should not count for squat when it comes to the idea that the score should somehow be replaced by something done decades later to make the film "better" and to meet his "vision". Especially since if anyone really deserves the blame for why this film did not become the classic it could have been, it is Sam Peckinpah and his incredible failure to come up with a storyline that was written out to a logical end result. Instead, he got obsessed with giant detours in the plot, shooting scenes over and over on location and letting time slip away while the script had no ending and it never even did get an ending to address the simple question of what happened when Dundee and the others returned to the fort? These were narrative points that needed to be addressed by a competent scriptwriter and on that point, Peckinpah who had charge of the script failed this film miserably and ultimately gave us the real root cause of why the film failed and no amount of blaming Daniele Amfitheatrof could change that.
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I cannot bear to watch this film with the "new" score. It has to be the Amfy every time. To me, it's part of the history of it... Jerry Bresler put his faith in Amfitheatrof, and the composer turned in a good piece of work.
I agree about the confusing narrative, etc, but the film still has such a handsome LOOK to it,
I have to keep watching whenever it comes on TV.
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Posted: |
Mar 23, 2013 - 12:33 PM
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By: |
Rollin Hand
(Member)
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Okay, call me confused. I've just seen the specs for this at SAE and if I'm reading this right the expanded cut does NOT have the audio option of the original Amfitheatrof score. Instead I have to watch the short version in order to hear this. If this is the case, then it's NO SALE with me. Even though the film is still a narrative mess, the added scenes did strengthen a couple of plot points and I would rather watch this version from now on than the shorter one, but I do NOT want to listen to a score that was composed decades after the fact any more than I'd want to watch compromised episodes of "The Fugitive" with replacement music. The DVD gave me the option of the original score with the long cut and if that's the only way I can enjoy the film that way, then that's the only version I'll own. Thumbs down to Twilight Time for doing this when they didn't have to.
I'll take this opportunity to reiterate a point I've made before: Amfitheatrof has gotten the biggest bum rap of any film composer I've seen in terms of a score being blamed for a film's failing with this film. Yes, I'm the first to acknowledge that the title song clashes with the tone, but the score and its main theme are fine overall with nothing inappropriate to the visuals. Since Peckinpah was not the producer of this film, IMO what his sentiments were on the score should not count for squat when it comes to the idea that the score should somehow be replaced by something done decades later to make the film "better" and to meet his "vision". Especially since if anyone really deserves the blame for why this film did not become the classic it could have been, it is Sam Peckinpah and his incredible failure to come up with a storyline that was written out to a logical end result. Instead, he got obsessed with giant detours in the plot, shooting scenes over and over on location and letting time slip away while the script had no ending and it never even did get an ending to address the simple question of what happened when Dundee and the others returned to the fort? These were narrative points that needed to be addressed by a competent scriptwriter and on that point, Peckinpah who had charge of the script failed this film miserably and ultimately gave us the real root cause of why the film failed and no amount of blaming Daniele Amfitheatrof could change that.
To tell you the truth, I won't upgrade to BD. This is no masterpiece and the film itself is more interesting than exciting.
The only Peckinpah film that I used to upgrade to BD was The Getaway because of Jerry Fielding score.
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Posted: |
Mar 23, 2013 - 1:59 PM
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By: |
Eric Paddon
(Member)
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Here is the explanation that Nick Redman has given.
"The blu-ray master for the extended version of Major Dundee is not just a brand-new transfer, but a ground-up redo wherein some reels have been remixed and sound effects re-dubbed. Executives in charge of the project were not completely happy about the 2005 transfer which had been assembled in haste due to the exigencies of the schedule, so the opportunity was taken this time to fix some aspects. As a result the blu-ray master for the extended version does not include the Amfitheatrof score. Why would it? It is important to remember that Amfitheatrof did not score the "extended" version, just the original theatrical release.
On the old DVD via seamless branching, viewers were afforded the choice of scores, but the additional scenes either had no music, or some of Amfitheatrof's music was "tracked" to cover some transitional material.
Viewers of the blu-ray miss nothing by only watching the longer cut with Caliendo's score. Now, we completely understand that some aficionados don't like the idea of the new score, and some don't like the new score period, which is why we have gone to the extra time and expense of including for the first time on a digital format the original theatrical cut, complete with the Amfitheatrof music, and as a bonus, isolated for soundtrack fans to enjoy. It's really a win-win when you think about it, and much more true to history than the "try to have it both ways" scenario of the DVD."
This explanation frankly really ticks me off. Because in the first place, as someone who thinks the film needed more narrative cohesion and NOT a new music score why in the world must I be saddled with an inferior cut of the film in terms of story cohesion (the extended one at least cleared up one plot hole regarding the fate of the scout) just to hear the authentic score of the film, rather than some half-assed version commissioned by obsessed fanboys who aren't willing to be honest about holding Peckinpah responsible for the film's flaws? The DVD at least gave us the best of both worlds by letting those like me who wanted to see the new scenes shot *at the time* in the context of the film with its proper score. Now instead they think they're doing people like me a favor by saddling me with the old cut only, and trying to justify that by saying "Amfitheatrof didn't score the long version." Well gee whiz, Caliendo didn't score the 90% of the film that is part of that long version and had that footage appeared originally, it would have been scored by the composer who was legitimately hired for the project and did the job he was asked to do by the man whose final say it was, and that man wasn't Sam Peckinpah, who was not the producer.
NO SALE TT and a giant thumbs down.
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I am still royally P.O'd at Twilight and Sony for releasing this without the DVD option of the original score on the preview cut (which is what it should be more properly known as), but I may find myself swallowing my pride on this for one reason only and that's the ability to rip the Amfitheatrof score off the isolated channel on the theatrical cut. If I had any indication that a CD release might follow, I wouldn't even bother since neither version of this movie on Blu-Ray I would have any interest in watching, but since I can't take that as a guarantee (no Sony movies released on Blu-Ray by TT have had a CD release since then; only Fox titles by both Intrada and Kritzerland respectively) this may be a necessary evil.
Having watched the extended cut with its original score again this past week I am more than ever convinced that that score, while not the greatest I have heard, is a lot more appropriate than an attempt to foreshadow "The Wild Bunch" (I am not counting the title song in this assessment; it should have been banished to the end credits). The old LP reissued on CD some years ago is really a worthless representation of what the film had with its multiple songs and sound FX laden cues.
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I got the Imprint version last fall which is pretty much the same as the new Arrow. Kudos to Glenn Erickson for rescuing this title from the terrible job TT did when they wouldn't include the Amfitheatrof score on the original preview/international cut. As Erickson has pointed out, the "theatrical" cut was a hack-job after it had first run in the longer version and once the long version was rediscovered, no one missed the old shorter cut when it wasn't on DVD.
TT's insistence that the original score was never part of the long cut and thus only including it on the hack-cut was a "win-win" was 100% false from the get-go. Thankfully, this title got done right at last by those who knew better.
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