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 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 11:48 AM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

I'm trying to determine who the pianist was on the soundtrack "Experiment In
Terror". The cue is titled "White On White". I doubt that it was Mancini.

Anyone know?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 12:32 PM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

I'm trying to determine who the pianist was on the soundtrack "Experiment In
Terror". The cue is titled "White On White". I doubt that it was Mancini.

Anyone know?


Pretty sure it was James "Jimmy" Rowles (probably on both the score and soundtrack re-recording), who started working regularly with Mancini on "Peter Gunn" once John Williams became busy with scoring assignments for Revue Studios (though JW played piano on many of the 1959-60 season "Mr. Lucky" shows). Rowles was also one of the two pianists featured on Manicini's "Wait Until Dark," the other pianist being Pearl Kaufman. Usually if Mancini is the featured soloist he's credited somewhere on the album.

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 12:52 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Jimmy Rowles is a good one.

Artie Kane would've been my second guess bc that's about the time he started playing with Mancini.

[edit]I betcha that Roy Phillipe knows.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 12:55 PM   
 By:   Broughtfan   (Member)

Jimmy Rowles is a good one.

Artie Kane would've been my second guess bc that's about the time he started playing with Mancini.

[edit]I betcha that Roy Phillipe knows.


The soundtrack was recorded in February 1962. Was Artie Kane already active in the studios? I think the silent movie (tack piano) track was played by a second pianist, possibly Artie Kane or one of the other studio heavyweights of the era (Ray Turner, Ray Sherman, Caesar Giovannini).

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

You're probably right bc Artie Kane really starts to appear on many STs in the 70s. I think Manicini was pushing him along in a way - I have a few titles "Manicini presents Artie Kane" from the mid-70s.

I'm still thinking Jimmy Rowles is the right one.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 3:56 PM   
 By:   roy phillippe   (Member)

Jimmy Rowles is a good one.

Artie Kane would've been my second guess bc that's about the time he started playing with Mancini.

[edit]I betcha that Roy Phillipe knows.


Thank you for the vote of confidence.
It is Jimmy Rowles. I think that by 1962 John Williams career as a studio pianist was over. Artie Kane didn't start working with Mancini until the 70's mostly on the organ and Fender Rhodes.
As an organist Mancini produced an Artie Kane trio album for RCA. His sidekicks were no other than Ray Brown and Shelly Manne.
Some of Rowles best work with Mancini is on "The Party" (IMHO). He just lets Rowles loose on a number of tracks. Also check him out on the "Mancini' 67" album.
Kane's wife JoAnn runs a large music copying and librarian service. She is credited on many films.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 5:24 PM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

Jimmy Rowles is a good one.

Artie Kane would've been my second guess bc that's about the time he started playing with Mancini.

[edit]I betcha that Roy Phillipe knows.


Thank you for the vote of confidence.
It is Jimmy Rowles. I think that by 1962 John Williams career as a studio pianist was over. Artie Kane didn't start working with Mancini until the 70's mostly on the organ and Fender Rhodes.
As an organist Mancini produced an Artie Kane trio album for RCA. His sidekicks were no other than Ray Brown and Shelly Manne.
Some of Rowles best work with Mancini is on "The Party" (IMHO). He just lets Rowles loose on a number of tracks. Also check him out on the "Mancini' 67" album.
Kane's wife JoAnn runs a large music copying and librarian service. She is credited on many films.


Ooh. I didn't know that JoAnn Kane was married to Artie Kane. Thanks for that info. I do also
suspect that Jimmy Rowles was the pianist, but I am just guessing.

Isn't "The Party" the score where you hear the chorus singing a scat vocal with the lines:
"Jimmy Rowles, Jimmy Rowles, Jimmy Rowles"? Kind of one of Mancini's little jokes? Who
better to put up with him than Blake Edwards I wonder?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2013 - 6:22 PM   
 By:   roy phillippe   (Member)

Jimmy Rowles is a good one.

Artie Kane would've been my second guess bc that's about the time he started playing with Mancini.

[edit]I betcha that Roy Phillipe knows.


Thank you for the vote of confidence.
It is Jimmy Rowles. I think that by 1962 John Williams career as a studio pianist was over. Artie Kane didn't start working with Mancini until the 70's mostly on the organ and Fender Rhodes.
As an organist Mancini produced an Artie Kane trio album for RCA. His sidekicks were no other than Ray Brown and Shelly Manne.
Some of Rowles best work with Mancini is on "The Party" (IMHO). He just lets Rowles loose on a number of tracks. Also check him out on the "Mancini' 67" album.
Kane's wife JoAnn runs a large music copying and librarian service. She is credited on many films.


Ooh. I didn't know that JoAnn Kane was married to Artie Kane. Thanks for that info. I do also
suspect that Jimmy Rowles was the pianist, but I am just guessing.



Isn't "The Party" the score where you hear the chorus singing a scat vocal with the lines:
"Jimmy Rowles, Jimmy Rowles, Jimmy Rowles"? Kind of one of Mancini's little jokes? Who
better to put up with him than Blake Edwards I wonder?


The "Jimmy Rowles.." track is titled "Party Poop".
I met JoAnn Kane years ago. I think she got her start working with Marvin Hamlisch>

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2013 - 3:23 AM   
 By:   Simon Morris   (Member)

David Meeker's Jazz on the Screen - a Jazz and Blues Filmography credits Jimmy Rowles as the pianist.

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2013 - 1:20 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Very nice info, gents.

Roy, is there is resource available with all of the orchestra members for each Mancini recording? As a general statement, it seems like the world could use an updated Mancini web site.

FSM did a few Mancini STs, and the Penelope/Bachelor in Paradise one shows Artie Kane and Jimmy Rowles. Here's the link with the musician credits:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/cds/detail.cfm/CDID/318/Penelope-Bachelor-in-Paradise/

I'm not near my CDs today, so I can't check if Kane plays on the Williams or Mancini STs. Like it would matter anyway. :-D

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2013 - 6:37 PM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

David Meeker's Jazz on the Screen - a Jazz and Blues Filmography credits Jimmy Rowles as the pianist.

Hey, can you provide a link to that? I tried a google search, but couldn't locate it. Sounds like it might be a very useful source of info.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 1:08 AM   
 By:   Simon Morris   (Member)

David Meeker's Jazz on the Screen - a Jazz and Blues Filmography credits Jimmy Rowles as the pianist.

Hey, can you provide a link to that? I tried a google search, but couldn't locate it. Sounds like it might be a very useful source of info.



It used to be published in book form, as I have an old copy. A more recent version can be downloaded here:

http://memory.loc.gov/service/music/eadxmlmusic/otherpdfmusic/mu20040004-30_march_2011.pdf

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 1:42 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

Thanks for that, Simon. I have the old printed editions of the Meeker book, but I've just downloaded the updated one and could be here stuck to the screen for the next year or two just reading those lists of names!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 4:38 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I love the voicing on the final chord. Bottom to top: Left hand, Eb-Bb-G; Right hand, F-D-A.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 5:03 AM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

Thanks for the link Simon.

I love the voicing on the final chord. Bottom to top: Left hand, Eb-Bb-G; Right hand, F-D-A.

Yeah, me too. As a pianist, I try to use that voicing as much as I can. I call it my 'Mancini' chord.

I believe Mancini liked to do an orchestral version often, usually with horns and trombones. The bottom chord is the key of the piece, in this case Eb major. Then add an inverted minor chord above it, based on the major seventh of Eb (in this case D minor). Works great on lots of ballads.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 5:42 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Thanks for the link Simon.

I love the voicing on the final chord. Bottom to top: Left hand, Eb-Bb-G; Right hand, F-D-A.

Yeah, me too. As a pianist, I try to use that voicing as much as I can. I call it my 'Mancini' chord.

I believe Mancini liked to do an orchestral version often, usually with horns and trombones. The bottom chord is the key of the piece, in this case Eb major. Then add an inverted minor chord above it, based on the major seventh of Eb (in this case D minor). Works great on lots of ballads.


Yes, on the ballads, he almost always ended on a major 7th with a sharp 11th.

When I first got the "Experiment in Terror" album, I worked out that entire tune note for note, and still have it memorized all these decades later. That coda leading up to the final Eb major 7th, with the E major 7th just prior, is so gorgeous.

What's funny is that, finding out it's apparently Jimmy Rowles, it sounds so much like Mancini's playing, and I'd always assumed as much. I wonder if Mancini wrote the whole thing out, or if it was a lead sheet with chord symbols. I'm assuming the former.

Also, this tune is a great illustration of how disappointed you can feel when you know the album first, and then find out how the music is used in the film. I thought this was such a haunting piece, and that it must have been used in a key scene. In reality, it is in the background at a restaurant, and if I recall correctly, you hear only about 15 or 20 seconds of it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 6:10 AM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

The piece (White On White) is written out, at least in my Mancini piano book, and appears to be very close to what is played. But I don't know if it was written out for the picture, or just later. My guess is that it was written out (mostly) for the picture, because a professional like Mancini would not want to take chances, even with a great pianist like Jimmy Rowles, and of course timing is also of paramount importance in scoring.

But if you can find a Mancini piano book that still includes "White On White" you will likely see it
written down in much the same way that it appears, at least on the recording.

Yeah, the chord is really, more as you described it - I just find it easier to think about it another
way when I'm playing it. And there are also times, when Mancini didn't use the flatted third (on top of the major seven, but went with a major third. Like playing an Eb in the left hand, and a
D major chord in the right. That works well also. The flatted third on the final chord in "White On White" gives it kind of an extra tang.

I kind of doubt that Mancini would have considered playing it himself, at least in 1962. He did do an amazing job a few years later, of playing piano on some of his albums. Since it was not his main instrument, so even more credit is due for his learning the piano well enough to record it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 4:55 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I was under the impression that piano was his main instrument. "White On White" is in a style which has often been called "arranger's piano." I would imagine he could have knocked off the recording in less time than it took him to score it. Perhaps a musicians' union rule prevented him from playing it, being that he was the composer/conductor?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2013 - 5:01 PM   
 By:   roy phillippe   (Member)

Very nice info, gents.

Roy, is there is resource available with all of the orchestra members for each Mancini recording? As a general statement, it seems like the world could use an updated Mancini web site.

FSM did a few Mancini STs, and the Penelope/Bachelor in Paradise one shows Artie Kane and Jimmy Rowles. Here's the link with the musician credits:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/cds/detail.cfm/CDID/318/Penelope-Bachelor-in-Paradise/

I'm not near my CDs today, so I can't check if Kane plays on the Williams or Mancini STs. Like it would matter anyway. :-D


The Musicians Union in New York has contracts going back decades.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 9, 2013 - 7:45 AM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

I was under the impression that piano was his main instrument. "White On White" is in a style which has often been called "arranger's piano." I would imagine he could have knocked off the recording in less time than it took him to score it. Perhaps a musicians' union rule prevented him from playing it, being that he was the composer/conductor?

From reading Mancini's book, he seems to talk about being mostly a flute or piccolo player first. Although I feel certain he knew his way around a keyboard.

I think the first recording he made where he is credited with 'piano' was his rendition of "The Theme From Romeo & Juliet". Or perhaps he recorded "Love Story" even earlier? That puts his
piano credits at around 1970 or thereabouts.

It is one thing to play a piano well, but an entirely different thing to do that in front of a mike.

 
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