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 Posted:   Jul 14, 2013 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

So I got this new 40' LCD TV and wanted to revisit my old DVDs to see if they could give me a new experience, having sufficed with an old 27' TV for many years.

Well, the image quality was a bit lesser than I had expected. Guess because I've seen so many BluRays by now (I don't have one myself, but my dad does). My Pioneer DVD player (DV-444) was top-of-the-class when I bought it in, oh, about 2002. It's this one: http://www.pioneer.eu/images/products/dvdplayer/pioneer/dv444k_detailpage.jpg

In any case, the image is not really the issue. I put on my ALIENS DVD of the massive 9-DVD ALIEN QUADRILOGY set, and was surprised to discover that the sound was quite out-of-synch. That was not the case with my old TV. What gives? Does anyone know?

 
 Posted:   Jul 14, 2013 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

That was not the case with my old TV. What gives? Does anyone know?

Yes sir. It is a problem with the way an old DVD player or old surround system connects to a new TV. You can fix this problem by purchasing a brand new DVD player or better yet a Blu-ray player that has good support for DVD playback.

They do sell audio sync devices to attempt to fix this issue without buying a new player or new surround sound but they tend to be more money than it is worth. Since most newer equipment is now including some kind of audio synchronization I would just replace your player or surround.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_lag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_synchronizer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_to_video_synchronization


 
 
 Posted:   Jul 14, 2013 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Damn! I hadn't expected that.

But thanks for the information. Guess I have to postpone the 're-discovery' of my DVD's untill I can afford a BluRay player.

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 12:37 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Back in 2000 i also got a rather expensive cyberhome dvd player hooked up to a small tv and also had the occasional sync issues; I had a dvd of "They Live" that was out of sync, very annoying. Now I have a receiver for my surround system and hdmi signal and it allows for you to adjust the sync. But I'm sure blu-ray players nowadays have that function too but make sure they have it as it's not a given.

Regarding that old Alien dvd boxset, it did suffer from audio being out of sync, but I believe only for parts of the extended cut of alien3? something they remedied for the blu-ray set.

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 1:10 AM   
 By:   Urs Lesse   (Member)

I don't want to beat a dead horse and have little knowledge about all this, but can anyone tell me if standalone DVD or BD players offer a better viewing experience or solely extra convenience – compared to watching DVDs and BDs from a computer's drive? I never owned a standalone player and haven't had a standalone TV set for 12 years.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 1:17 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Back in 2000 i also got a rather expensive cyberhome dvd player hooked up to a small tv and also had the occasional sync issues; I had a dvd of "They Live" that was out of sync, very annoying. Now I have a receiver for my surround system and hdmi signal and it allows for you to adjust the sync. But I'm sure blu-ray players nowadays have that function too but make sure they have it as it's not a given.

Regarding that old Alien dvd boxset, it did suffer from audio being out of sync, but I believe only for parts of the extended cut of alien3? something they remedied for the blu-ray set.


It's not the OLD old ALIEN set (the LEGACY one, which I managed to sell), but the last one they did with 9 DVDs. There were some minor synch problems in ALIEN too, but it was when I put on ALIENS, it really became glaring in the dialogue. I just switched it off after about 15 minutes as it was unwatchable. I didn't even try ALIEN 3.

At this point, the likelihood of me re-experencing this set -- and other DVD's -- with my new TV has diminished considerably. Once I get a good BluRay down the road, I'll most likely try to sell them and require their BluRay counterparts.

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 2:14 AM   
 By:   Grimsdyke   (Member)

I don't want to beat a dead horse and have little knowledge about all this, but can anyone tell me if standalone DVD or BD players offer a better viewing experience or solely extra convenience – compared to watching DVDs and BDs from a computer's drive? I never owned a standalone player and haven't had a standalone TV set for 12 years.

Well, the PC have to be good enough, especially CPU and GPU !! HDMI and all that.

The reason why I obtained a HTPC is that with the software available I can get rid of forced subtitles, access extra languages other wise blocked by the authoring of the disc, say goodbye to region codes, etc, etc ....
I will never buy a stand-alone bluray-player !!!

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 3:21 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)


The reason why I obtained a HTPC is that with the software available I can get rid of forced subtitles, access extra languages other wise blocked by the authoring of the disc, say goodbye to region codes, etc, etc ....


I was under the impression that forced subtitles are burnt into the video and can't be removed? Or do you mean that there are discs with no option to turn off subtitles eventhough they separately stored on the dvd or blu-ray?

I can't speak for what is better, blu-ray player or HTPC (or plain PC), I'd say that the firmware of the player could become outdated but most players now support online connection and updating?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 3:30 AM   
 By:   Marlene   (Member)

I don't want to beat a dead horse and have little knowledge about all this, but can anyone tell me if standalone DVD or BD players offer a better viewing experience or solely extra convenience – compared to watching DVDs and BDs from a computer's drive? I never owned a standalone player and haven't had a standalone TV set for 12 years.

They offer a more relaxing viewing experience: you just switch it on and the picture appears. When viewing on a PC you have to start the PC for it, Windows might bother you with some warnings while you´re watching, the virus scanner chimes in etc.

However, since a standalone TV and BluRay player are standalone hardware they have the disadvantage of sometimes not being able to play everything you want them to play (more than 720p for example, many TVs still around), they simply lack the flexibility software installed on a PC allows.

If you can live with all that (we can) then you might think about purchasing standalone units.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 3:44 AM   
 By:   Marlene   (Member)

Damn! I hadn't expected that.

But thanks for the information. Guess I have to postpone the 're-discovery' of my DVD's untill I can afford a BluRay player.


EDIT: I wanted to write that you might want to use other connectors than SCART... but sadly your Pioneer doesn´t offer other connectors except even worse S-Video...

Your display lag could be reduced by turning off several 'enhancements' your TV offers. Most of the time these 'enhancements' are nothing more than more or less sophisticated de-noisers, sharpeners and whatnot. They make sense for analogue TV signals coming over cable or antenna, where the signal most of the time is noisy and muddy. For DVD and BluRay however they don´t make any sense since there aren´t any flaws that need to be removed.

Might I ask about your model? Maybe I can find something about it online so that I´d be able to give advice as to what might be switched off to enhance picture quality AND possible reduce lag.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 3:57 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Good question about the TV. It's actually one I borrow from a friend. It's a Philips 40'. It says "285" on the side, don't know if that is the model no. Let me consult the box in the basement and get back to you.

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 5:37 AM   
 By:   Grimsdyke   (Member)

I was under the impression that forced subtitles are burnt into the video and can't be removed? Or do you mean that there are discs with no option to turn off subtitles eventhough they separately stored on the dvd or blu-ray?

I don't think (or better, hope) that any company worldwide still 'burn' subtitles into their masters !!
French imports are most annoying when it comes to forced subtitles. Dario Argento's TERZA MADRE is currently (afaik) only available in France on Blu-Ray and through the authoring it won't let you switch off the subtitles when watching the Englisch dub on a stand alone player !!
But on my htpc they (usually) don't even pop up but are eliminated from the start.

I can't speak for what is better, blu-ray player or HTPC (or plain PC), I'd say that the firmware of the player could become outdated but most players now support online connection and updating?

Yes, but what happens when the studio creates codes on the discs that DEMANDS that your player is connected to the internet otherwise the movie won't start ??
And I also can't imagine that any stand-alone player will ever get a region free-firmware.
The BDA would run amok ...

HTPC are usually much quieter than regular PCs - so I would always recommend this way.

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 6:33 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

I was under the impression that forced subtitles are burnt into the video and can't be removed? Or do you mean that there are discs with no option to turn off subtitles eventhough they separately stored on the dvd or blu-ray?

I don't think (or better, hope) that any company worldwide still 'burn' subtitles into their masters !!
French imports are most annoying when it comes to forced subtitles. Dario Argento's TERZA MADRE is currently (afaik) only available in France on Blu-Ray and through the authoring it won't let you switch off the subtitles when watching the Englisch dub on a stand alone player !!
But on my htpc they (usually) don't even pop up but are eliminated from the start.


Well considering some of the transfers I've seen on DVD I wouldn't be surprised wink But I've never had the forced subtitles problem where they can't be shut off via the player.


Yes, but what happens when the studio creates codes on the discs that DEMANDS that your player is connected to the internet otherwise the movie won't start ??
And I also can't imagine that any stand-alone player will ever get a region free-firmware.
The BDA would run amok ...


If they demand an internet connection I wont buy their disc simple as that. That would be a ludicrous idea as it defeats the purpose of physical media? I wouldn't worry about that becoming a reality. Look at the outcry Microsoft got with the new Xbox when they demanded a permanent internet connection (that idea went out the window fast).

Regarding the region free firmware, there are always players which you can adjust yourself (pretty easily via the menu), my two previous LG and Philips dvd players could be easily set to region 0. But I agree it's an extra hassle.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 7:02 AM   
 By:   betenoir   (Member)

So I got this new 40' LCD TV and wanted to revisit my old DVDs to see if they could give me a new experience, having sufficed with an old 27' TV for many years.

Well, the image quality was a bit lesser than I had expected. Guess because I've seen so many BluRays by now (I don't have one myself, but my dad does). My Pioneer DVD player (DV-444) was top-of-the-class when I bought it in, oh, about 2002. It's this one: http://www.pioneer.eu/images/products/dvdplayer/pioneer/dv444k_detailpage.jpg

In any case, the image is not really the issue. I put on my ALIENS DVD of the massive 9-DVD ALIEN QUADRILOGY set, and was surprised to discover that the sound was quite out-of-synch. That was not the case with my old TV. What gives? Does anyone know?


Thor, try getting into the displayed menu on the TV and into sound settings using the remote control. See if there is an adjustment for synchronization. If so, try adjusting that to see if you can eliminate the problem before you go out and buy any hardware.

I have a small digital TV I bought maybe two years ago. Until I made significant adjustments as described, over-the-air broadcasts through the antenna (not cable, not satellite) were showing with out-of-synch sound! I have no idea how that can even occur, except for some sort of delay mechanism built into the TV. Why would that be done? Again, no idea, but it was done, and it was a pain in the neck. I have never hooked this TV up to a dvd player, so I don't know if it would be a problem with dvds too, but I assume so.

Good luck!

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 7:40 AM   
 By:   Grimsdyke   (Member)

Regarding the region free firmware, there are always players which you can adjust yourself (pretty easily via the menu), my two previous LG and Philips dvd players could be easily set to region 0.

O.K. but this feature could be pulled with the next firmware update, couldn't it ??
But there are many more advantages using a HTPC, like no more annoying trailers (which you need to skip - if the stand-alone allows), perfect resume play, etc., etc.

 
 Posted:   Jul 15, 2013 - 2:49 PM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

I don't think (or better, hope) that any company worldwide still 'burn' subtitles into their masters !!

I am pretty sure that some companies/movies are doing it intentionally now. Some plasma TVs had issues with "screen burn" from subtitle generation in the TV itself. Apparently it is less harmful if it is a natural part of the picture.

 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 9:16 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

My Pioneer DVD player (DV-444) was top-of-the-class when I bought it in, oh, about 2002. It's this one: http://www.pioneer.eu/images/products/dvdplayer/pioneer/dv444k_detailpage.jpg

Looks very similar to mine.

 
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