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 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   Reeler   (Member)

I've been thinking over how the sequel's setting could have been written differently yet maintaining the Myers legend. And I cannot off-hand. To bring him out more into the open would've just ended up losing the appeal like all the sequels did. Had every character been conscious of him, that wouldn't have worked. Loomis and Laurie were the only ones who really believed he was real and a threat, and if there wasn't that contrast of ignorance in the other characters I don't think so. I suppose Laurie could've been quarantined in some way while Myers as the force powered his way through. But he'd have been more in the open and so cannot see that working. I say that cause Deborah Hill said in the sequel Laurie should've had a bigger part instead of being drugged up. Anyway, here's my review...

http://worldofpop.blogspot.com/2013/09/halloween-ii-1981.html

Update: While Halloween is debatable as being the greatest horror film, I'd argue Michael Myers is the greatest horror villain. He was "mechanical" but rose to a mythological position, and I imagine that's why Jason is (falsely) the best or most popular villain ever. He never rose to the mythological heights of Myers, and after those first two films, with such a high, the disappointment that Myers was just another cardboard killer in those sequels. Jason never really had those highs and lows and remained comfortably consistent. After Carpenter's influence was gone, it was never the same. The simplicity of it WAS its genius.

 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 11:40 AM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

I honestly think Halloween II is on par with Halloween, they are both wonderful and brilliant and I always think of the two films as just one long movie (albeit one that gets progressively gorier!).

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 12:55 PM   
 By:   RedOkt64 2.0   (Member)

I honestly think Halloween II is on par with Halloween, they are both wonderful and brilliant and I always think of the two films as just one long movie (albeit one that gets progressively gorier!).

Agreed.

When first released, I loved it... Yes, the gore factor was bumped up... however, John Carpenter and Debra Hill were still heavily involved in the series. The stylistic touches that make the original stand out are there with the sequel.

Example: When Pamela Susan Shoop parks her car outside of the hospital... As the camera pans down... you see Michael in the mirror.

As time has gone on... I too think that both films are part of an organic whole.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   Dan Hobgood   (Member)

I've long been of the opinion that the original is somewhat overrated and that the sequel is very underrated. In some ways, I like the second film better. (Heresy!)

Dan

 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 6:09 PM   
 By:   msmith   (Member)

By the way, did anyone catch this compelling and humorous talk Jamie Lee Curtis gave on the making of the Halloween and Halloween 2 movies along with her opinion of the the remakes and sequels?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 7:46 PM   
 By:   Reeler   (Member)

Example: When Pamela Susan Shoop parks her car outside of the hospital... As the camera pans down... you see Michael in the mirror.

My two favorites are when Myers is looking at Laurie across the street from her school and when he's standing in the clothes line. Freaky stuff.

I've long been of the opinion that the original is somewhat overrated and that the sequel is very underrated. In some ways, I like the second film better. (Heresy!)

I think if there's a big complaint is that the original's screenplay was written around the frights as opposed to the frights being written around the screenplay. There's a wee bit of chronological issue at times, and the sequel looks as though things were edited in at spots, suggesting that may have been when Carpenter stepped in to do some re-do's. I don't really know. The bluray might say.

I think Nick Castle was easily the best with Dick Warlock as honorable mention. Castle's father was a choreographer and it's clear to me some of that rubbed off.

Edit: Halloween was truly a collaborative effort. If one of the pieces isn't there, the whole thing crumbles--the featureless mask from Wallace, the lighting, and even Irwin Yablan looking up to see if the title had even been used, making it synonymous with the day. And yet if not for Carpenter's idea none of it becomes a reality.

In hindsight I don't see how the screenplay could have been developed first. Yablan's deal to Carpenter was to make the film with babysitters, on Halloween, and naturally he and Hill thought of ideas beholden to the holiday.

Edit 2: Hmm, not sure. Anyway, it was Hill's idea to have Myer's hiding under a bed sheet. FYI

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 25, 2013 - 7:58 PM   
 By:   Reeler   (Member)

By the way, did anyone catch this compelling and humorous talk Jamie Lee Curtis gave on the making of the Halloween and Halloween 2 movies along with her opinion of the the remakes and sequels?



Everything was going fine until she said Jim Cameron's a genius. WTF!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 20, 2015 - 11:17 PM   
 By:   Dan Hobgood   (Member)

Because I have yet to find a convenient screening of It Follows, I decided to quench my thirst for genre viewing by revisiting the first two Halloweens. I'm "doubling down" on my previous assessment. Sorry, but there is a lot about the first movie that is more amateurish--especially technically, and in that realm, especially with the scoring. The music on its own is iconic, no doubt, but, as score, it's often poorly mixed (too loud), sophomoric, and lacking any subtlety. It even detracts from the film's scares in places. Jerry Goldsmith or Bernard Herrmann John Carpenter, unfortunately, is not.

The second film is much more polished all-around. Plus, it actually gives us insight into Michael's motivation.

Dan

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 12:48 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Jerry Goldsmith or Bernard Herrmann John Carpenter, unfortunately, is not.

You are right, you know. John Carpenter shouldn't even be compared to Goldsmith or Herrmann: he is his own variation. He's a singular artist and dislike it as you may, his iconic scores are what set any of his films apart from any of the great films which Goldsmith or Herrmann scored. There is no right or wrong in this equation, only what the viewer prefers.

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 12:48 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Edit: delete

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 12:48 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Edit: delete

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 4:59 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

One shouldn't underestimate the influence of the giallo subgenre and Dario Argento on this movie. The sometimes hypnotic visuals, the bigger masses of blood, continuing the association of incipient eroticism with hyperviolence. I think it made for a nice extension of a ripe concept that had not yet been fully exploited.

Seeing in the meantime that Friday the 13th had done such boffo business, the Halloween team had to up the brutality. I think they did so in the most striking and economically stylish way they could think of.

I still really like about 75% of this movie. With Donald Pleasance returning, it got the all the talent it needed to succeed. And it really gave me a couple of nightmares, no joke. Can't say that about many movies.

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 6:15 PM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

I love Halloween II, as I stated in my post above.

The scene where the young nurse finds the doctor with a hypodermic needle in his eye and she slowly backs into the darkness just as Michael Myers' white mask slowly fades into view from the blackness...my favorite scene in the movie. A perfect horror movie moment. The way the scene is lit, the colors, the horrifying way to die...no other words besides just perfect.

Also love the funny bit towards the beginning when the concerned mom is bringing in her young whimpering son who apparently found some unwanted razor blades in his Halloween candy. Such a twisted, darkly funny sense of humor on the filmmakers' part there!

Lance Guest was terrific as Jimmy. One of the most likeable male leads in the history of horror movies, and applause to the balls to kill him off when he was so likeable...and to kill him off in such an unusual way (death by slipping and falling on a pool of blood and smacking your head on the ground). I remember Roger Ebert's review of the film way back then (which was not kind, particularly in respect to his utterly glowing four-star review of the first film) when he admitted the novelty of Jimmy's death scene (not including his later appearance before he really dies). In regards to that kind of death scene in a horror movie, he said "it had to happen sooner or later."

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 7:16 PM   
 By:   Dan Hobgood   (Member)

There is no right or wrong in this equation, only what the viewer prefers.

Ordinarily, in this context, I'd agree with you. However, it's hard to imagine anyone thinking that the scenes I'm thinking of (where Laurie sees Michael staring at her out her bedroom window, and where Michael strangles the dog, for instance) are better off with the melodramatic, in-your-face musical approach they have. (I wish someone--in almost any other situation, the director, who wouldn't have been the same person as the composer--would have stepped in to say, "Just dial it down a couple notches.")

My assessment is not all bad; Carpenter's score is very Goldsmithian in the sense that its overall structure is excellent--very synergetic, thematically. (That's an absolute, absolute plus.)

Dan

 
 Posted:   Mar 21, 2015 - 8:39 PM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

I honestly think Halloween II is on par with Halloween, they are both wonderful and brilliant and I always think of the two films as just one long movie (albeit one that gets progressively gorier!).

I agree, both freaking awesome movies. I think I may actually like 2 better, JUST slightly.

 
 Posted:   Mar 22, 2015 - 2:43 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

By the way, did anyone catch this compelling and humorous talk Jamie Lee Curtis gave on the making of the Halloween and Halloween 2 movies along with her opinion of the the remakes and sequels?


If you get the 35th anniversary edition with the gorgeously remastered 4K print of Halloween, there is a lengthy documentary showing Jamie Lee Curtis' Q&A as well as how she got involved in doing it etc. Very entertaining.

In regards to part 2, I don't like it as much as the original but it is great that it picks up right after where part 1 ends and you get that sense of continuity which I thought was cool at the time. It is ambitious in that regard to try and continue the mood of the original (though for me it fails in that regard).

 
 Posted:   Mar 22, 2015 - 2:55 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

The music on its own is iconic, no doubt, but, as score, it's often poorly mixed (too loud), sophomoric, and lacking any subtlety. It even detracts from the film's scares in places. Jerry Goldsmith or Bernard Herrmann John Carpenter, unfortunately, is not.


I disagree, I think it is very iconic in the movie as well and the way it is mixed too loud only adds more tension, it really drives the movie though I will say it gets repetitive near the end. Carpenter may not be Goldsmith or Herrmann (or Morricone for that matter), but the other way around Goldsmith, Hermann and Morricone couldn't do an electronic score the way Carpenter (& Howarth) does, often with little time, budget and very minimalist and to the point. Apples and oranges perhaps, but his signature sound still resonates in current scores as much as the others.

 
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