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Volume 1, Number 30

Over the course of reading the FSM boards, I’ve often noticed that tempo in re-recordings seems to be quite a sticking point for some. Sometimes I think people just get used to the tempi from the original recording or the film itself and become so accustomed to it being that way, that when they hear a different tempo, it seems too fast or too slow to them.

If it is an interpretive re-recording (more of a concertized presentation) then tempo is at the discretion of the conductor and is a manifestation of his/her interpretation. They should not be expected to adhere to the original recording’s tempi as such unless that is part of their stated approach. Regardless, if the conductor's interpretation doesn't work for someone then it just plain doesn't work for them whatever the reason and that may extend beyond just changes in tempo. I've found that to be the case at times where the harmonic rhythm of a piece seems to dictate a faster or slower tempo that feels more natural for the chordal progressions. 

On the other hand, recordings/reconstructions such as those by Monstrous Movie Music, strive to reproduce the sound of the actual soundtrack as recorded for the film and stick as close as possible to the original tempi. In that case it is pretty essential to adhere to strict tempi otherwise their attempt in recreating the original score wouldn’t hold up. 
 
As an example of changing tempi from original recording to re-recording, I cite Bernard Herrmann. He slowed down his tempi quite a bit in some pieces on his suite recordings. Since the more concert style recording setting wasn't restricted by film timing issues it gave him the opportunity to expand some of the pieces temporally allowing them to breathe a bit. In many cases it allowed more of the majesty of the pieces to come through and feel less rushed. In any event, it was his interpretation of the music at the time under a different set of recording circumstances that produced the results on those re-recordings and I know he has been taken to task by some over it. I actually prefer some of his re-recording tempi for listening purposes outside of the films so I’m not personally criticizing him here at all.
 
And lest someone brings up the notion that a composer is always the best interpreter of his works, I offer up Richard Strauss as an example of that not always being the case. Strauss was a world class conductor, but when it came to recordings, even of his own works, two things conspired to mar some of his interpretations: 1) In his early recordings, the state of the recording technology of the day required him to speed up his conducting at times in longer works to accommodate time limitations. That would not be an issue in later day recording technology. 2) As he got older, he was somewhat notorious at times for wanting to get in and out of the recording studio as quickly as possible so he tended to speed up the tempi so he could be on his merry way. This was in contrast to his usual strict adherence to tempo and dynamics markings in scores. So he left behind some hurried and not so definitive interpretations of his own works in his later years.
 
I’m sure that there will always be issues with tempo as long as music is written, recorded, re-recorded and performed live, and there are many interpretations of what is "right" in regards to the matter. Film scores have other considerations as well. Each of us has our own philosophies of how and why we listen to film music and that may play into the debate of tempo specifically and other performance factors in general as well. As always these things make for lively debate and generate some interesting “discussions” on the boards!

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Comments (18):Log in or register to post your own comments
As I previously said, McNeeley ruined my single favourite Bernard Herrmann's TZ score: "The Eye of the Beholder" because of the wrong and slow tempo. I can't listen to this piece. And it is one of the reason why I can't stand re-recording: there's always something wrong.

As I previously said, McNeeley ruined my single favourite Bernard Herrmann's TZ score: "The Eye of the Beholder" because of the wrong and slow tempo. I can't listen to this piece. And it is one of the reason why I can't stand re-recording: there's always something wrong.


Give me a Fracking break already with the pointless whining....

As somone has already pointed out, Herrmann himself would have handed you your head for bitching about tempo....

Lud Gluskin changed the tempo's when he re-recorded the music in europe for tracking purposes for the CBS production library as well and as far as I can Tell Herrmann didn't have an issue then with it...

Now in this case, yes it's not the same as tempo's heard in the show itself....

But as something to listen too apart from the show, the PERFORMANCE AND SOUND are outstanding and as far as I'm concerned are very good presentations of those works.

McNeely and Townson overall did a great job with this 2 CD SET and to bitch and moan over what is really a fairly minor issue is really OTT..

They treated the scores as MUISC not FILM SOUNDTRACK and you know what, THE COMPOSER would have agreed with that approach and encouraged it.

So, if you really want to hear it at the film tempo, pull out the DVD and play it, you can even rip the isolated music track if there is one and play that as well.

But, this CD should be judged for what it is, not for what you want it too be.

And as far as I'm concerned, it's a rather treasured release.

Just my two cents..


Ford A. Thaxton

As I previously said, McNeeley ruined my single favourite Bernard Herrmann's TZ score: "The Eye of the Beholder" because of the wrong and slow tempo. I can't listen to this piece. And it is one of the reason why I can't stand re-recording: there's always something wrong.


Lud Gluskin changed the tempo's when he re-recorded the music in europe for tracking purposes for the CBS production library as well and as far as I can Tell Herrmann didn't have an issue then with it...





I agree with you that the album is well-made. I own the DVD set and listen to the original recording a lot.
I stand for the original recording as a rule. That's my policy.
Try to understand the difference, the shades of music. And please no lecture, mon ami.
The original tempo really fits the narrative unlike the re-recording. It's actually a chase theme so plays it slow makes no sense.

Watch the chase scene with the correct tempo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMev5QQxs00

Interesting article. I do find that tempo concerns do occasionally mar some re-recordings. The Korngold disc that Andre Previn did a few years ago was a major disappointment to me, especially after it was greatly lauded, by his relaxed pacing throughout. Music that should have been exciting and thrilling ended up ponderous and lead-footed. It was a serious disappointment. Luckily, even though I often notice differences in tempi between conductors, I don't find "wrong tempi" to be a deal-breaker all that often.

I particularly enjoyed the article's mention of Richard Strauss. Of course, Strauss's dedication to quick tempi wasn't only owed to the limitations of recording technology at the time; he really liked to get through things quickly. I read once (I believe in Harold Schonberg's book "The Great Conductors") that he was proud to bring in a performance of Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 in under 45 minutes. The shortest recording of that symphony that I've ever heard took 65 minutes.

Compare Roy Budd's re-recording of a SUPERGIRL suite to Goldsmith's original - Budd takes it at an absolute gallop. I don't know that I mind that much. The original is still there, and I'm usually more concerned with general performance and sound quality.

The article it pretty spot on --- it's not just the difference between the "original" and the "new", but there's a certain feel that music itself takes. All you have to do is listen to a few recordings of a classical piece and the phenomenon will be the same -- sometimes the music will simply seem too fast or too slow. I think the potential problem with film music rerecordings, though, is that since the music is usually set against the film exactly, it's written to be played at very close to an exact tempo, so it's a bit more noticeable.

And incidently, I never had a problem with anything on the TZ set, though I could listen to Eye and see....but Herrmann's rerecordings, always felt so dreary to me, and just very hard to listen to (a lot of so-called classic classical recordings that are slow very often feel the same way). I just prefer fast....though there's cases where things are too fast, too.


Watch the chase scene with the correct tempo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMev5QQxs00


"Correct Tempo?"

that's not exactly the proper term, "Film Tempo" would be correct.


Ford A. Thaxton

I unexpectedly found my own solution to the "tempo problem" a number of years ago when I bought a Tascam CD-RW402 (now out of production) dual-deck CD recorder.

It has a feature that claimed to be able to play the source CD at standard speed plus/minus 9.9% WITHOUT altering the pitch. I haven't had the need or the occasion to use the most extreme adjustments (+9.9% or -9.9%), but when I did use it in the lower ranges of plus or minus 3% or less (to adjust time length or to expand/shrink a cue to fit an exact time) it seemed to work well enough. I've always thought of trying it with a dialogue cue to see if the voices came out with a "chipmunk" quality, but haven't done so yet.

Many sound processor software programs also employ this. Sound Forge has a "Time Stretch" option for sound processing a cue length to make it longer or shorter to fit a particular length of film, for instance.

So, if I REALLY don't like a tempo (either way), and if I want to spend the time "fixing" it, I can adjust it to my liking without noticeably ruining the pitch, either on my Tascam or in Sound Forge. I wonder if those of you lucky ones blessed with "perfect pitch" would be able to tell the difference?

But in real life, I usually just live with what's out there, without going bonkers trying to "fix" it.
Time is precious.

Ron Burbella

The Korngold disc that Andre Previn did a few years ago was a major disappointment to me, especially after it was greatly lauded, by his relaxed pacing throughout. Music that should have been exciting and thrilling ended up ponderous and lead-footed. It was a serious disappointment.


A great many people said that, but in its defence, for the Korngold completists, his 'Captain Blood' suite contains music that is NOWHERE else recorded, even on b[censored]tlegs. The cue where Blood triumphantly sets sail as a pirate and leaves Port Royal after capturing it is a premiere, but Andre moved it out of sequence into the final suite music.

If you listen to old archive recordings of the classics, everyone (including the likes of Rachmaninov at his own keyboard) just seems to have played, and WANTED to play and conduct their works at what we think of as high speed, up until about 1950. It's not just to do with recording transfer rates either, since the pitches are right.


As somone has already pointed out, Herrmann himself would have handed you your head for bitching about tempo....



Just look at the Decca releases of Herrmann and his own suites.

It seems obvious to me that, especially in the old days where composers wrote very detailed scores, there were many occasions where, rather then edit a cue, a composer would write, say, a Prelude, and then FORCE his players to ram it into the title sequence at speed to get it to fit. Given the option to re-record it, they'd take it at the tempo they originally envisaged it. An example is Rozsa's 'Double Indemnity'. Koch took the title at the most effective slow fatalistic pace, but in the film it's much faster, but surely not by the composer's choice.

By the way, if you speed up the Koch 'El Cid' Prelude to the film's length whilst maintaining pitch, as Ron suggested, the results are very effective. It can't always work though, because musical sound isn't just the notes played, but subliminally perceived things like bow scrathches and brass blowings and breathings etc.. So something can still sound a little artificial.

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