Michael Kamen

Interview by Sijbold Tonkens

Michael Kamen: It is unusual to request an interview with Film Score Monthly, but I do read the magazine and I know many of my colleagues read the magazine. And of course people who are interested in film scores. And I am interested in film scores. It is very unusual to get a film that has a life when exceeds the film and Mr. Holland's Opus is such a film. I was involved to the press for the preparation of the release of the film. To my great happiness, we were very proud of that film. And Disney, instead of sell the film on the strength of stars in the film, they realized there was a story to sell. In America, Disney works brilliantly. So the story is to the people who teach music at school. I received my entire musical education in the New York city public school system.

The formative years were the most important. And I went to high school for Music and art. I had there my most incredible experience. While we were working on Holland's Opus I went back to Music and Art. And I went to talk to some of my teachers who since become friends. I said, it was such an incredible gift that I was given. That I wonder what we can do to make sure that kids have an equally great opportunity. And I was going to conduct the orchestra in Holland's Opus which is no great achievement, except for the fact that you don't ever believe that when you are sitting in the high school that one day you'll come back as a guest to conduct it. So that was really a kick in the head. So I talked to my friend the teacher "How can we help?" quite innocently, because I assumed that things were the same. After all, it is New York City, a rich city, an intellectually profound group of parents with interested kids.

He said: "I'll show you something" And he took me to a room, opened the door to the room. and in the room was a graveyard of musical instruments. four or 500 violins, flutes, trombones, trumpets, hobo's, everything piled up to the sealing. And they were all broken and busted. And he said; "We can't afford to fix these. So we no longer have instruments for the school. And the school system does not give us instruments anymore. So the kids have not anything to play on. And if you want to help, fix these instruments. I am sure you know guys who can do that." And I was shocked, for a musician to see all those broken instruments, it is a nightmare. I was thinking about it and started a fund called the Mister Holland Foundation, because the film went on very successful in America.

So I started with Richard Dreyfuss and Steven Herrick who is the director of the film a foundation to raise money to buy school kids instruments. We can't do very much about the school curriculum, change when they teach, and what they teach and how long. And we can't hire teachers because that's schoolboard and board of education. What we can as private citizens simply do that, raising a little bit of money and start billions of dollars, it is probably a few hundred thousand. And buy instruments and then do whatever we can in each community to ensure that that goes on. Not as a one time effect, it happens year after year. Until the school boards finally realize that they have to come to their senses, and make this a permanent part of the school curriculum, not a temporary loss if they can't afford that. If they want to save money, they can fire congressmen, senators but don't give up school music program. And we began the Mister Holland foundation. I began a series of youth concerts, going around the country to promote the fund with youth orchestras. I started with the Youth Orchestra of Atlanta during the Olympic games. They are all sixteen years old and they are fantastic. I'll do another concert with them in March and I am going to New York to do a concert there and a concert with the young musicians foundation in Los Angeles, hoping to get school concerts in Boston, Seattle, San Francisco and Florida perhaps. In Chicago I am doing a concert in December. And I just want to appeal to my colleagues and to my friends and to other interested people; This Mister Holland fund does exist and BMI will help us and if you have any serious inquiries right now, direct your questions to Doreen Ringer at BMI, who is a great friend of the music programs. and eventually we will have a foundation set up were you can call for your help or even send us some money. And that is all I wanted to say. I will continue writing for films, but I want to make my way in the world with Mr. Holland's Opus. It is exiting for me. As most films end, this one goes on.

ST: I am Dutch, from Holland, so you found the right man to promote it.

MK: Good, well the school systems all over the world are involved. We start very small, a 50 to a 100 schools. But there are thousands of schools. And they all need help. And that is why I wanted you for the interview. Now you can come with any question you want.

ST: I was interested in your music for the film Suspect. It had so much the Bernard Herrmann style. Was it an homage to Bernard Herrmann?

It wasn't an homage directly. But I wanted very much to be a good student of the kind of music that he would make to a film. It was not an original film, it was an unusual film at the time. And Peter Yates was a wonderful director to work with. The gear character in that film was Liam Neeson who played the mute. It was I think his first film. He did not say a word but he was an incredible actor. The score was inspired from him, it were two notes, a la Bernard Herrmann. And only at the end of the film when it finally resolved, you finally got a major chord when you found out it was the judge. Usually I am very bombastic and very loud in my scores. But this score I did all my self, all the orchestrations. I recorded the whole score in one day at Abbey Road (London) it took 3 three hour sessions, I mixed it all the next day and it then went to the dubbing room where they were mixing the film and say: "Turn it down!" Peter Yates liked the score so much he kept making it go up. Ray Lovejoy, who was the editor, a man who is not credited enough in this world, is single-handedly responsible for one of the most important film scores of all time, 2001 A Space Odyssey, which changed musical history. They had a score by Alex North that was commissioned for the film which they did not like. And Lovejoy used "Also Sprach Zarathustra." And people discovered that you could use serious music in to a film.

I am working now with Ray on a new film Inventing the Abbots directed by Pat O'connor.

ST: What is the weirdest story about your career as a film composer? (FSM likes juicy stories, don't we?)

MK: Oh man, your magazine is not big enough. You need to print volumes and volumes.

ST: Try me, I am a printer....

MK: I don't think that I need to recount weird stories. It is without question there is a weirdness looking around every corner. (To illustrate this; during the interview the phone rings, I stopped the tape recorder and Michael Kamen answers the phone. saying "Hello, ... No, this is not Lauren Bacall. Miss Bacall left Valencia a few days ago. No, I am Michael Kamen the film composer... Michael Kamen the film composer. Sorry for not being Lauren Bacall. Bye." ST)

The good news is, at least my personality only has a distant memory of the weirdness and a real memory of the good stuff. I remember being interviewed right after doing Die Hard 3 and I was angry with the world. I thought everybody was full of shit. I was angry with the producer, I was pissed off with the film. I did not like the fact I had to record it outside of LA. Everything about the film made me irritated. My most favorite person in the world, my aunt Anna, who had given me the gift of music, was dying. And here I was working on a piece of rubbish like Die Hard 3 and having to take it seriously. And being told where to go and how to write it and how not to write it, and this was not good enough or loud enough or nasty enough. But a month or so later I had forgotten all of that. It didn't make any difference anymore. It is like the story of Queen Elisabeth I. This is a true story. Some courtier bowed low before her in court, with all the other courtiers around him and all the other ladies and gentlemen of the court in attendance. And he made a very low bow in front of Queen Elizabeth and farted very loud. And he was so embarrassed that he banished himself to Belgium. That is where I guess people went in those days. And he stayed there for 14 years because of this incident. And finally he thought it was safe to come home again. And he came home again and Elizabeth was still queen. And he had to, because he was a nobleman be presented at court. He showed up at court and bowed low in front of the queen, and she said: "Rise Sir knight, you should not have stayed away so long. We long since forgot the fart."

That is how I feel about films when I go through incredible agony and I don't remember it a few months later. In the heat of the moment I am very passionate about what I do. I love the music, I love hopefully every note that I write. They are like my children. But when I feel I am under threat, or when I feel not taken seriously enough—God knows, one is never taken seriously enough. But when you are in the middle of doing it. There is a kind of a megalomaniac disease being on the podium conducting an orchestra. And you feel suddenly incredibly important. And it is not very healthy to come home and being asked to take out the garbage. "You want me to be human?!" Who do you think I am? Do you not know who I think I am? So these weird stories at film, vanish. I am here in Valencia playing my music, and standing in front of an orchestra, playing Robin Hood, Don Juan.

ST: There should be more tracks on the disc on Don Juan, in the film is more beautiful music.

MK: In some cases you do what you can to preserve the line of the score. But there are real economic restrictions for making an album. And they want you to limit it to a sudden amount of time for the re-use fees for the orchestra. We just did a 101 Dalmations CD, with a lot of music in the film. And we made a score that is probably an hour and a half long, maybe an hour and 40 minutes long. And the record has an hour; it is enough. I was hoping that the score to Don Juan in performance would be the entire score to Don Juan. But is does not cut together and there is a lot of repetition of the motifs and melodies. So you take the most important ones. Then you find out there is no time to play the entire suite to Don Juan at the concert.

ST: Were there any scores that you did rejected?

MK: My biggest story about that is when I made my first important score: Brazil. I was so proud of it, I thought that this would finally be a statement that I could take to the world to say, Yes, I am a film composer. This is a great film. this is the world's best director and I'd like to stand on this one. This is my badge. And we had some legendary problems releasing the film. Sid Sheinberg, who was running Universal at the time had very big problems the way the film ended and probably the way it began and the middle, I don't know. But Terry Gilliam got into a famous battle with Sid Sheinberg in Universal. And it now exists as eight different versions. The American version, the English version, the American TV version, the European release, everything was different. I think Terry is making it straight in making the directors cut. Because it is an important film, it is recognized. But at that time I was waiting for that film to come out. I was very proud of having achieved this work. And I am still proud of it. But one day I got a call from my new agent. I have never had an agent before, He called me and said, "Sit down my boy. Welcome to the real world of film composing." "What happened?" I said. He said, "Your score has been fired. I said WHAT?"

They had removed my score from the film to replace it with some pop music. Well, first time for me, even more insulting, I consider myself a pop musician, a rock and roller. And a hobo player. I am a desert topping and floor polish. I am both. So, I did not even want to go outside to walk down the street. I was sure everybody, like in a Bunuel film was pointing at me and laughing. I was crushed. But as time went on they did put the score to the film. There was a funny anecdote that years later I happened to have a publishing deal as we composers do, we make deals. In that case to but my house. And we made a deal with MCA. Who are a division of Universal. The people who were guilty for Brazil. And they never did release the album. I made the album and handed it in and there was a bruhaha over it. They were so upset. They picked up the album and they threw it down and said: this comes out over my dead body. Something Sheinberg said. So they never released the album and I was still hurting from it. And then they did not sell the film anyway.

Eight years later, I was in London. And my publishing deal was with MCA and I got what was my number one hit world wide with Bryan Adams for Robin Hood. And my publisher called me into his office. And said I'd like to give you a platinum record for this big hit record. So, OK thank you! So came to the office to get the record, getting photographed, the cheesy smile, the guy with the arm around you. And MCA was involved in the European distribution of the single. And as I was leaving the office they say, "Sit down, I wanna talk to you. Accidentally, your publishing deal has lapsed, we forgot to renew your deal. But as an accident, of course we want to renew your contract, and of course give you more money and treat you more seriously." And I had not aside from getting my original advance from them, which I thought was substantial at the time. But beside that advance I have not heard from them ever in the three years we had the publishing deal. Not once. No phone call, no postcard no letter, nothing!

So here he was going: "Well, here we wanna sign you again and give you a very hefty advance." That was the term he used. And he offered me the contract. And I said no, no, no, don't be silly, that must be a mistake, call New York. He said, "I have got the call from New York this morning, they want you to sign." I had a chance now. I said: "Listen, there is an album somewhere in your vaults probably in LA. And it is sitting on a shelf some place. I have been waiting for this album to come out for eight years. It is from a film called Brazil. And I would like that released. I won't even take your fucking phone call until I see that album in the record stores." And I left. And they did make the phone call, and the album came out, but by that time I had already another publishing deal with a much bigger advance. Business is business.

ST: Did you like the Olympics. You did a concert there on world wide television.

MK: The Olympics is such a global event. I did love the opening ceremony. It was huge and it was heartwarming to see that the plans had been laid to make it a celebration of world peace. Later on you realize, what about the games? there is so much Coca Cola and Reebok and commercials going on. Nothing against the product, but what about the sport? It was a platform for hopes and dreams. I am proud of what I did. I wrote a flag ceremony. And instead of making it a standard nationalistic fanfare, I made a very simple melody played with a youth orchestra, the Atlanta Symphony Youth Orchestra which was great fun. I think its an anthem, I dedicated it to the original concept of the Olympics. To declare a truism to stop a war. Which is why they originally had the Games. So I called the piece "The sacred truism" It is an International anthem. It will be on the album. I am making an album, along with bits of Don Juan, bits of Robin Hood and other film scores. Backstage was more incredible than anything else. Sitting and talking with Little Richard and Al Green, and BB King and Stevie Wonder. And that is the stuff that dreams and hopes are really made off. So the Olympics was fun.