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Posted: |
May 12, 2022 - 12:43 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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I'm currently wading my way through a lot of new scores of the year, and I'm struck by one thing, in particular -- how many of them use sample programs over actual musicians. It becomes especially glaring in scores that are supposed to sound big and symphonic, but that use sample programs (sophisticated or not) to mimic it.
We've seen this for many years, due -- for example -- to limited economic funds. But the extra prevalence of them now makes me think this must be the result of covid in many cases, and the inability to use real musicians over the last two years. This is understandable, but it also causes a problem -- they all sound so thin and fake.
What I don't get, is -- why not use the covid limitations to do something completely different and creative? Something more on synth's own terms, for example, or smaller acoustic ensembles or whatever?
Anyways, just an observation.
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Yes, I have noticed that with some recordings, and I've been turned off by the orchestra emulation. I have no problem with electronics or effects, and even synth choirs and instruments, if they are used for effect (as James Horner sometimes used sampled choirs, as in Titanic). But if sampled orchestras try to sound like the "real deal", they still fall terribly short.
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Posted: |
May 12, 2022 - 2:15 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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I have to be honest. Having streamed countless films/series at home over Covid time I can't recall a single case where I sat back and thought, nah, that's no good because it was played on keyboards rather than with a real orchestra.
It becomes more apparent when you listen to the soundtracks than when watching a film or series. I should have listed some examples, but I've already deleted the folders. We're still far off from samples being able to sound just like the real deal (although it's getting closer every year), so it just sticks out to me. It's one thing to add a few sampled instruments on top of something that is more synth-driven, that's OK. But when it tries to mimic a big, old-fashioned orchestral pirate score or whatever, with zero dynamic, abrupt ends to chords and so on, it just grates on me.
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Yes, I am not sure how relevant this is to when you are watching a movie, when the music is just part of the sound mix. But it becomes very, very noticeable when you listen to a film score as music. One could of course argue that if a film score does the job in the movie, that suffices, and the sound quality on a music only release doesn't matter. Fair enough, I would just pass such a release then.
I have some recordings with a sampled orchestra and I hardly ever listen to them... they sound slim, artificial, sterile... there is no depth or warmth in the sound.
I think BSX re-recording of THE THING is interesting, as half of that score was electronic anyway, so that part is well recorded, and to have an orchestral emulation of the other half of the score is strangely fitting, as if it's a THING version of the score, an emulation. So I have grown to like that one, even though I prefer the original Morricone orchestral recording, as a companion piece.
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Posted: |
May 12, 2022 - 3:53 AM
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By: |
Hurdy Gurdy
(Member)
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When I hear something like those old THRILLER & TWILIGHT ZONE scores, or something like TESTAMENT by James Horner, which created incredible soundscapes, using only a handful of players, it makes me really sad to hear a tinny, thin sounding modern midi score, that is straining at its seams to appear BIG, but just comes off sounding VERY small.
Is it a lack of skill (or effort) at an arranging/orchestration level, on the part of the composer, to be able to think outside their (limited keyboard) box and try to create something more organic or acoustic or inventive?
I only know it sucks in comparison.
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All synth= no sale! 
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All Orchestra = No Sale
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All Orchestra = No Sale
D'ya wanna take this outside? 
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Posted: |
May 12, 2022 - 6:14 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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Which scores, Thor? How many exactly did you hear that are doing this? And how do you know they are sampled compared to organic? Is it mentioned in the liner notes?
No liner notes, just an experienced ear. They would never "give it away" in the liner notes if it was all-sampled anyway, if the goal was to sound big and symphonic. Of course, in some cases, it might indeed be all-sampled, other cases sampled dubbed on top of acoustic and other cases yet again all-acoustic that somehow comes off as sampled (rarely happens, but a pinched sound mix might give that illusion -- like on Henrik Skram's CLUE).
I've deleted the scores in question now, but some off the top of my head include EMILY AND THE MAGICAL JOURNEY (Kraemer), NINJAS DOWN THE STREET (Kieboom), PLUNDER QUEST (Sammi), THE LOST CITY (Toprak), THE GREEN PLANET (Merrison & Slater), QAZAC (Silliotto), OUR GREAT NATIONAL PARKS (Schweitzer), BLASTED (Westad), others I can't remember right now.
This as opposed to something like Rombi's LES TEMPS DE SECRET, which in my ears clearly sounds acoustic and natural.
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Yes, I have noticed that with some recordings, and I've been turned off by the orchestra emulation. I have no problem with electronics or effects, and even synth choirs and instruments, if they are used for effect (as James Horner sometimes used sampled choirs, as in Titanic). But if sampled orchestras try to sound like the "real deal", they still fall terribly short.
Doubling a sampled instrument line with a synth line actually helps in many cases. It adds an extra dimension and then the ear isn't as critical of the sampled part.
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