 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've been really studying Stravinsky's Firebird complete ballet these days. It's frankly an awesome work. So listening to parts of it, there are some HOOK moments I have discovered. Then it dawned upon me that Williams was being a bit clever here. Most of the quotes can be found in the cue Tink Arrives/Flight to Neverland. Well, one of the things Robin Williams says in this scene is "firefly from hell". Also, the Firebird is all about rebirth and HOOK is the transformation of Banning back to Peter Pan. I mean how smart is this?
I also noticed a bit of an homage to Korngold's Sea Hawk in that rising string figure in Hook-Napped. Again, it doesn't feel like a rip off but a clever nod to a seminal pirate score because Hook has pirates in it.
I know I'm focusing on Hook here but I think it's just remarkable how Williams employs these types of quotes in his material since they have a contextual reason for being there.
That said, I'm still trying to figure out how Stravinsky's Rite of Spring figures into a desolate desert of Tatooine in Star Wars....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recently been listening to Star Wars - The Phantom Menace (Ultimate) and i always found that the 'Droid Invasion' borrows a lot from Mahler's 6th Symphony in terms of harmony & progression....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've been really studying Stravinsky's Firebird complete ballet these days. It's frankly an awesome work. So listening to parts of it, there are some HOOK moments I have discovered. Then it dawned upon me that Williams was being a bit clever here. Most of the quotes can be found in the cue Tink Arrives/Flight to Neverland. Well, one of the things Robin Williams says in this scene is "firefly from hell". Also, the Firebird is all about rebirth and HOOK is the transformation of Banning back to Peter Pan. I mean how smart is this?
I also noticed a bit of an homage to Korngold's Sea Hawk in that rising string figure in Hook-Napped. Again, it doesn't feel like a rip off but a clever nod to a seminal pirate score because Hook has pirates in it.
I know I'm focusing on Hook here but I think it's just remarkable how Williams employs these types of quotes in his material since they have a contextual reason for being there.
That said, I'm still trying to figure out how Stravinsky's Rite of Spring figures into a desolate desert of Tatooine in Star Wars....
Star Wars' score was all about hitting people with something vaguely -- or indeed overtly -- familiar. That's why we hear Holst-type music within seconds of the opening action. I think the Tatooine desert sequence was scored with the flavour of that particular section of The Rite of Spring because most people would recognize it from Disney's Fantasia and the primordial earth that was being depicted. Primordial, alien, and there's even some dinosaur bones laying in the sand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Great posts guys!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Did anyone else notice Liam Neeson's and Ewen McGreggor's swim to the undersea city is accompanied by a subtle reference to Saint-Saëns' "Aquarium"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Or the "La Mer" snippet at around :22 in Jaws' "Three Barrels Under".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Did anyone else notice Liam Neeson's and Ewen McGreggor's swim to the undersea city is accompanied by a subtle reference to Saint-Saëns' "Aquarium"?
I'll have to go back and hear Saint-Saen but if thats true, you just blew my mind.
And if one of you smart fellas could explain to me why "Battle In The Snow" works so well, please do? I've been trying to crack that cue for years - its almost like a concerto piece and maybe even a little jazzy? - but something about it eludes me unlike the rest of the Star Wars music.
Are you saying that you think it works well and want to know why? Or that you want to know why others say it works.
I was thinking about this when I was wondering what an episode VII score would sound like. It seems Star Wars and Empire (Jedi a little less so) do not have a piece in them that does not sound like a complete musical piece. A song, if you will. Imperial Attack, The Last Battle, all the Death Star stuff, all the Hoth stuff, The Asteroid Field. It all feels like very coherent connected music. Maybe it's the age I learned it at but I can SING it. A lot of scores, even some very very good scores are more sound than music. Certainly more sound than song or tune. I'd say Superman and Raiders of the Lost Ark are the same way. I (IMHO) do not think the prequels are like this. Very much IMHO.
I don't think it's just me getting hung up on themes either. The examples above and certainly Battle in the Snow are not just theme theme theme. Actually of the three (four?) movements of the Hoth battle (Drawing the Battle Lines, Battle in the Snow, Rebels at Bay, The Rebels Escape Again) I think Battle in the Snow is the harshest and relies the least on established themes.
You want a good time, go find the Seth McFarlane interview with George Lucas where McFarlane SINGS Battle in the Snow (fairly accurately, iirc) to Lucas. It's terrific.
And it is very jazzy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That said, I'm still trying to figure out how Stravinsky's Rite of Spring figures into a desolate desert of Tatooine in Star Wars....
Star Wars' score was all about hitting people with something vaguely -- or indeed overtly -- familiar. That's why we hear Holst-type music within seconds of the opening action. I think the Tatooine desert sequence was scored with the flavour of that particular section of The Rite of Spring because most people would recognize it from Disney's Fantasia and the primordial earth that was being depicted. Primordial, alien, and there's even some dinosaur bones laying in the sand.
I thought it was Williams' "Superman" main title that was supposed to be reminiscent of "King's Row." Of course, there are those that'll tell you "Superman" is just a rehash of "Star Wars."
For me, the much more obvious Williams reference to "Rite of Spring" was in "Superman," the "Trip to Earth" cue. Its melody is certainly inspired by it, but also the specific instrumentation used, in combination with the visual imagery, seems more than a coincidence. If you get a look at Disney's original "Fantasia," the impressionistic outer-space scene at the beginning of the "Rite of Spring" segment is EXTREMELY reminiscent of Kal-el's starship journey to earth. Williams, or someone, MUST have had this scene in mind, IMHO. It's just too close a match.
"Superman" has also been cited for references to Ralph Vaughn Williams' "Scott of the Antarctic" (the North Pole sequence), Copland (for the Smallville motif -- actually a reworking of a Williams tune from his own "The Cowboys"), and Prokofiev (for the villains' theme).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the endings of ET and Close Encounters both owe more than a little to The Firebird. And I adore all three.
About ten years ago The Onion had a horoscope (for my sign coincidentally) that said something like "The ghost of Gustav Holst will appear to you and not leave until you admit that John Williams stole all of his best stuff." I was flabbergasted at how they found me but demanded that they changed Holst to Stravinsky. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Play the first five notes of the Korngold to anyone as a quiz question and it'll be identified as Star Wars every time.
False. I've done this before and everyone who I played it for had no idea what it was from and didn't incorrectly guess Star Wars.
-Erik-
Then what was it that made you decide to play them just the first five notes?
I would think that because it's widely reported that they are the same.
OTOH, I once played Journey to the Center of the Earth and Batman back to back to someone and they didn't notice the similarities. And yet people will tell me that Superman and Star Wars are indistinguishable. I don't understand people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
King's Row has the first three intervals that match Star Wars, Then it moves to that repeating major 7th from the tonic which reminds people of Superman. But honestly, this is more a superficial resemblance. You cannot knock Williams for using a repeated major 7th a few times as part of his Superman theme.
Nice comment about the Saint Saens Aquarium quote in Phantom Menace. Cool.
See, the guy is a genius!
|
|
|
|
|
|
To me one of the more obvious references in Superman is Strauss' "Death & Transfiguration" to which the opening of the love theme is very similar.
"The Planet Krypton" also bears a stylistic resemblance to Strauss' "Thus Spake Zarathustra" -- and fittingly, as the Strauss piece is based on Nietzsche's book (of the same name) which deals with the "Ubermensch" -- i.e. "Superman"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
