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The lp is a better listen in most cases.
Obviously, we want the prelude and the Big rescue....
but it cuts alot of stuff that isn't really necessary "THE Trial for instance is better realized on the lp.
brm
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Apologies; I was unintentionally vague. I was referring to the First Gen tapes, actually. Thanks for the insight on the "Fortress" track.
Oh, well, that's less interesting but not all that different. I told the story in the first part of the podcast about how I found out. I think Neil is the first one I told, then MV & Matt (to make sure they wanted to proceed with the whole sh-bang rather than just the 6-track mag as we were expecting) and then let GSA know, and then Jim & Jay and a couple of others in whom I confided. It was assumed, however, that when the Superman II/III release came out with new source music from the first film that it would be obvious that a new element had turned up and that a new edition of the first score would be forthcoming.
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 4:54 PM
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By: |
CCW1970
(Member)
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...but honestly there is nowhere to go from here for the 50th or at any later time other than a high resolution release...Mike M.
FWIW, I think your work on all these archival releases is phenomenal, and keeps getting better. A buddy of mine works at Harman International in Northridge, and I was able to hear the main title of Rosewood from your La La Land release on their incredible demo stage through some huge JBL speakers. That was an impressive recording to begin with, and your work made it even better. It gave me chills!
Can't wait to hear the new Superman release through my trusty old Genesis Model 33 speakers!
LOL! Who is your friend at Northridge? I was there for the last two days getting immersed in Harman Luxury Audio's Home Theater Academy. It was ME that shared the Rosewood track with the Harman staff about a year and a half ago - my home theater company used that track (along with many others) when we did our double blind speaker shootout between the JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor and the Revel Salon2. The Rosewood main title is an excellent recording, and really gave the speakers a workout. It also is extremely varied in instrumentation - guitar, bass, strings, horns - which made it ideal for evaluating the differences between the two speakers.
FWIW, the Revel Salon2 won the listening test by a (slight) hair. One of the things that most impresses me about Harman is that they validate all their speaker designs using double blind, scientifically controlled listening tests. It's fascinating. Did your friend show you the MLL, where they do all the comparative speaker tests? No speaker has yet to beat the Revel Salon2 in any of the listening tests - it's an amazing speaker. They recently brought in a crazy expensive pair of Wilson Audio speakers at 5X the price of the Salon2s and it was no contest - the cheaper speaker won.  That's what happens when you design a speaker around scientifically valid principles vs. just trying to max out a price point (interestingly, some of the speakers that have done the worst in the double blind listening tests have been the most expensive).
FYI, if you talk to the pure science researchers at Harman they will tell you the benefit of high rez is in the remastering of the recordings for the format, not the high resolution in and of itself. When they've done the same kind of double blind listening tests, the CD quality version sounds pretty much identical to the high rez master, as of course it also retains the substantially audible benefits of the remastering.
My friend is David Glaubke. He’s Director of Corporate Communications, and gave me a grand tour of their facility a few weeks ago, along with some cool history of the company. It was just the two of us on the demo stage. He asked me to pick three songs from different genres. I picked the Rosewood main title for exactly the reason you cite. The other two songs were “I Will Rise Up” from Lyle Lovett’s “It’s Not Big It’s Large” record and the title track from John Coltrane’s “Blue Train” LP.
Yep, I did get to see the MLL room. It’s crazy how quick and quiet their system can switch out speakers. My buddy showed me the whole facility. It’s amazing how rigorous they are with stress testing and QC’ing all their gear.
Re: hi rez remastering, yeah, that makes sense. You can restore/bring out everything the original recording had. I think my main problem is the BS online sites try to pass off to consumers, that somehow paying for a “Hi Res” or “Hi Def” pricing tier can make an old recording magically become mastered at 192kHz/24bit, especially when most older recordings, particularly pop/rock music, don’t require higher dynamics because the source recordings didn’t have much dynamic range.
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I feel the same way as you about wishing STAR WARS could sound that good. There seems to be a huge difference in sound quality between STAR WARS 1977 and EMPIRE 1980. Did microphones and recording techniques improve that much in only three years? Maybe it was the media it was recorded on? I haven't looked into the history of how it was recorded or archived. I hope one day technology will be able to help.
These links are the best information I've found to address those questions.
http://www.malonedigital.com/starwars.pdf
Page 11 describes the mic choices, mixing console and recorders used for SW. Pages 14 &15 describe the same for ESB. Pages 24-26 discuss the sources used for the RCA Victor and Sony releases. Of note for SW: The reel of 16-track containing the music for the preferential takes was missing, but first generation live mix to 35mm magnetic was available.
http://www.malonedigital.com/studios-anvil
Gives a timeline of the equipment changes at Anvil. It appears that "Superman: The Movie" and "The Empire Strikes Back" were recorded on the same equipment.
http://www.malonedigital.com/tomlinson.pdf
The last paragraph on page 4 discusses Eric Tomlinson's approach to microphone and track usage. Appendix B starting on page 16 gives an incomplete listing of Eric Tomlinson's work.
I'm hoping Mike Matessino is soon given the opportunity to work the same magic he did on this release on all of the original trilogy, and that the best first generation masters are found and made available to him for the project.
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This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later!
Isn't this a bit like telling a child exactly where their Christmas present is hidden, then telling them not to peek? I don't know if I can resist now. I thoroughly enjoyed Part 1, and have already listened to it a couple of times, so I was already eagerly anticipating Part 2.
Thank you Mike Matessino! After listening to your explanation about the source music being placed on the SII/III album, and hearing the sample of Luther's Luau, I decided to order it too. Where am I going to put all these CDs I ordered this month?
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Another score, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 1977 seems to suffer the same issue. There is the Intrada release which has a lot of crackling and distortion, clipping I guess you call it. One Amazon reviewer went as far to say it has "abysmal sound quality". But I'm sure Intrada did the best they could with the source material they had to work with.
I think it sounds great, and I'm really glad Intrada released it. I haven't noticed what I'd call crackling at all, but I have noticed a bit of distortion. I recall reading about it having been recorded "too hot" for a vinyl LP release long before Intrada announced the CD release. So it would make sense that the distortion is analog clipping on the master tape. The strange thing is that I do notice the distortion when listening with headphones on lesser equipment, but I don't on speaker playback from my best equipment (which theoretically should be more revealing). I need to take a listen with my best headphones with my best equipment to see if I detect it that way. Also, take a look at what Eric Tomlinson and John Williams said about "voo-voo land" on page 11 of the Star Wars article I linked above.
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^ Where is the like button?
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This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later!
This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation.
Hi all,
To respect Mike's wishes and to give fans the opportunity of experiencing the new Fortress cue in the purest fashion, I will give instructions and timestamps on how to skip the segment on the podcast.
Thanks everyone for the nice words and support to the podcast! I hope you will enjoy part 2 as much as you did Part 1. More great insight from Mike and more excerpts from this wondrous new release.
It'll be online this coming Monday.
Cheers,
Maurizio
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I'm absolutely thrilled to see that this is already half sold at over 1500 units. The more I read about this release the more I want to order it.
It's actually limited to 5000 units but 1500 is darn good!
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Posted: |
Feb 22, 2019 - 2:53 PM
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By: |
townerbarry
(Member)
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This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later!
This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation.
Hi all,
To respect Mike's wishes and to give fans the opportunity of experiencing the new Fortress cue in the purest fashion, I will give instructions and timestamps on how to skip the segment on the podcast.
Thanks everyone for the nice words and support to the podcast! I hope you will enjoy part 2 as much as you did Part 1. More great insight from Mike and more excerpts from this wondrous new release.
It'll be online this coming Monday.
Cheers,
Maurizio
Maurizio...
I truly enjoyed the Interview with Mike...Spoilers. and the Big Punch in the Stomach is when Mike on the Day Of his Release Superman...Spoilers...There was Something Better! Not saying the have to listen to your wonderful Interview with Mike.
The Music you played of the upcoming Newly Found Tapes is Spectacular ...Amazing and Awesome...yes I’m going to break down and buy ..another Superman Score.
Well Done..Excited to hear Part 2 and that exciting find Fortress Of Solitude alternate. I’m just excited about hearing this new cue.
Great Job.
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Anyone get a ship confirmation today? Just curious if they were able to start getting it out as originally planned.
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Posted: |
Feb 23, 2019 - 2:01 PM
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By: |
MartyM
(Member)
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Applying the asterisks happens on a case-by-case basis. On the Potter set there would have been so many asterisks it would have looked ridiculous. We decided to not do it on An American Tail either.
This is technically the first fully Williams approved expansion of Superman, so it's almost like this is being done for the first time... here is the full score, here are the alternates, here is the original album, all from the original recording masters. So what has and hasn't been released before is not really relevant. Internally the licensing entities have all the information about who owns what.
I also understand expressions of hesitance about getting it. Part of that, I think, is because we don't really "wear out" our CDs, or even the cases they come in. The older releases look, feel, sound and work the same as when we first got them. That's not true with cars, phones, carpeting and furniture, for example, so we think about replacing them when the time comes and then enjoy the feeling of having something more "up to date."
I went through three copies of Superman on LP in ten years before it became available on CD and then bought US and Japanese editions of that, and didn't think anything about doing so... and that was for all the same master. But now we have three things... 1) economic practicality, 2) a music business that we know no longer requires physical product, 3) a title for which twice now people were told the best material was used... all coming together to tell us that our passions are reckless. It's a challenging problem and in the end up to each individual. And as I said before, there's no shame either way. If I were on the other side of this dilemma, I would just skip a meal out (or two if I was overseas) and get it.
Thank you Mike for answering my question about asterisks and for weighing in on the delicate topic of Blue Box vs latest edition. As you have worked on both editions, I am sure it puts you in a slightly awkward position so I want to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on that topic. That kind of transparency certainly helps to make a more informed decision. In my case, it really convinced me to get it so, not bad at all!
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I'm absolutely thrilled to see that this is already half sold at over 1500 units. The more I read about this release the more I want to order it.
It's actually limited to 5000 units but 1500 is darn good!
That's just direct websales. When you factor in wholesale it's over 3k units
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