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This sounds really hateful and ugly and I'm very sorry to folks like Joan, but...
Hey GoblinScore, you are one of my favorite members, so no problem with what you wrote. Yeah, I did like parts of the score and parts of the movie, but like you, I miss the epic scores by Bernstein, Goldsmith, Broughton and others. I also miss grand westerns like Dances With Wolves and Siverado. Maybe part 2 will be "grander." 
Dear Joan,
You truly drew tears, thank you so much for your kind acknowledgement. I needed it!!
I apologize for my sad and negative tone, I really do.
I'm feeling a deep loss of better times and this project seems to squeeze in between eras I love, and I Want to be all In, but the above posts and other forecasts speak a different message....the same failure so many other hopeful cine-arts have afforded.
I want to be excited for this, but the prospect of another franchise stalling....I can't take.
Furiosa broke my heart, score aside. Fantastic film that put me back in Cinema with no agenda etc. Just 2.5 hrs of escapist filmmaking.
Heartbreak in that the days of continuing series regardless of BO, are over.
Thank you Dear, again for your kind words. I truly needed to hear them at this point.
Fondest wishes,
Sean
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Posted: |
Jul 5, 2024 - 8:11 PM
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By: |
Zoragoth
(Member)
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Yeah, I did like parts of the score and parts of the movie, but like you, I miss the epic scores by Bernstein, Goldsmith, Broughton and others. I also miss grand westerns like Dances With Wolves and Siverado. Maybe part 2 will be "grander."
Inspired by Scott McOldsmith's very finely considered appreciation posted here yesterday, I attended a later showing here in this dusty former cow town of Fort Collins CO (and hey - we started as an army post here as well, in the Civil War era, and by a river!).
I enjoyed the movie more than it earned, I think, just the pleasure of seeing a western on the big screen. Fine actors, authentic production design and costuming. Sienna Miller's glow stole every scene she was in.
Still, I took issues with the pacing problems, as the big time critics have noted. The film is never not interesting, but it seems to just sort of roll along, without much in the way of highs and lows, though yes, it certainly has its share of action. Then it kinds of just ... ends, and we're into an unheralded preview montage of the next chapter.
It's unfair to compare it to another trilogy made in the same manner, LORD OF THE RINGS (and yes, THE HOBBIT) - given they have the considerable advantage of being based on time-honored literary sources - which strove for story structure of rising action, climax, and denouement, even with another part on the horizon. These movies have the advantage of being based on literary sources, but in the case of both trilogies Peter Jackson and his team put a lot of thought, re-editing, even calling the cast back for reshoots, to gave each installment a satisfying form.
As far as comparing John Debney to the other esteemed western masters mentioned on this thread, well, I have no doubt that the composer of CUTTHROAT ISLAND could have summoned a rousing set of appropriate action themes and set pieces - it that *had* been appropriate. But HORIZON thus far is a fairly downbeat western - lots of tragedy and not a whole lot of triumph. I think Debney's score, tuneful and lyrical, is appropriated for the film he was hired to score. To expect otherwise as this point is equivalent to wanting a Barry score to LICENCE TO KILL, or the exuberance of Bernstein's and Goldsmith's oaters for the solemn, gritty, and downbeat UNFORGIVEN.
Who knows - if the rest of the story does indeed emerge and reach its finale, we might hear some grand overtures yet. But with the film we have, I can't imagine a 'typical' Bernstein, Goldsmitih, or Broughton score being appropriate in tone and feeling. And, needless to say, I love all three of those guys!
To conclude, I have to say - what a joy to hear a film score that actually did have attractive themes, and didn't sound like the product of AI on a bad day!
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Inspired by Scott McOldsmith's very finely considered appreciation posted here yesterday, I attended a later showing here in this dusty former cow town of Fort Collins CO (and hey - we started as an army post here as well, in the Civil War era, and by a river!).
This was unexpected and very nice. I'm glad I could weave a review powerful enough to motivate anyone to seeing this film. Your experience is different than mine, but valid and well put. I can't say I disagree much, as it isn't a satisfying film on its own....but knowing full well it's just the start of a journey to get all of these people to the same place (Horizon), I was able to just relax into my seat and enjoy watching it all begin to unfold and I really want to see more. Seeing excellent actors put in wonderful performances, fully buying into the material in a convincingly created world was just wonderful. This film stuck with me long after I left the theater.
I agree, the preview really snuck up on me and it took me a second to realize that's what Costner was doing. Once I did, it was a thrilling montage and the music was incredible.
It's a funny thing about cinema - or anything really. We get what we get out of it. I wish everyone would have the same experience as I, it's a great feeling.
Thanks for going, and really, I am touched I inspired you to do so.
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Posted: |
Jul 9, 2024 - 2:03 AM
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By: |
Zoragoth
(Member)
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It's a funny thing about cinema - or anything really. We get what we get out of it. I wish everyone would have the same experience as I, it's a great feeling.
Thanks for going, and really, I am touched I inspired you to do so.
Thank you again for taking the time to write your original paean, and thanks also for your follow up. :-)
For all my misgivings, it was a treat to see a new Western on the big screen (I would add, too, that the story is far more original than Costner's last attempt, the pallid and tired OPEN RANGE), and to hear a tuneful, melodic score coming out of those theater speakers. I join you and Joan in looking forward to catching Part 2.
Speaking of Debney, I've only read a few reviews, but those writers have gone out of their way to dump on his score. I guess they too have forgotten what music sounds like when it's not Sound Design. A real shame ...
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Speaking of Debney, I've only read a few reviews, but those writers have gone out of their way to dump on his score. I guess they too have forgotten what music sounds like when it's not Sound Design. A real shame ...
Is a good score, no doubt about it, yet, is pretty obvious the percussion is sampled, some of the music sound clearly to be like Yellowstone from Tyler and the final track is clearly temptracking A Dark Knight by Zimmer, now, when people critize some composers for those things and dragged scores, why Debney is cleared for those, because is orchestral, big and thematic?, because i put Wyatt Earp and Open Range over this anytime, even News of the World (that score was dragged a lot for those who say that wasn't a western score and not good music)
Also, thematically speaking is so disperse, dosen't have a very solid structure in the album, but i think is more a problem for the movie than from the album.
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2024 - 12:59 PM
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By: |
nuts_score
(Member)
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Is a good score, no doubt about it, yet, is pretty obvious the percussion is sampled, some of the music sound clearly to be like Yellowstone from Tyler and the final track is clearly temptracking A Dark Knight by Zimmer, now, when people critize some composers for those things and dragged scores, why Debney is cleared for those, because is orchestral, big and thematic?, because i put Wyatt Earp and Open Range over this anytime, even News of the World (that score was dragged a lot for those who say that wasn't a western score and not good music)
Also, thematically speaking is so disperse, dosen't have a very solid structure in the album, but i think is more a problem for the movie than from the album.
I cannot help but agree. Debney always seems so indebted to whatever temp score has been placed before him. He shows tremendous talent in some of his best scores, but he seems like a "yes man" which is probably the best skill to have in the industry at this time. As for that finale track, it seemed to explicitly be mimicking "Waking Up" from the Oblivion score by M83 and Joseph Trapanese... but then I had to recall that that track is explicitly mimicking "A Dark Knight!" 16 years later and we still hear that editors, producers, and directors are obsessed with this track!
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If you’re talking the western genre, I highly recommend you give Godless by Carlos Rafael Rivera a try. It similarly gets epic (almost Morriconian) at times, while still maintaining an intimate feel like Dances With Wolves also had.
Yavar
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I highly recommend watching it! It starts a little bit slow, just like the score, and kind of eases you in with a less in-your-face score. But by the climax of the penultimate (sixth) episode, both miniseries and score are absolutely epic and moving in the best tradition of classic westerns.
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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/kevin-costner-horizon-2-removed-from-theatrical-calendar-1235937513/
They’re postponing the second chapter to give people a chance to catch up at home.
A disappointing delay but more hopeful than I originally thought. I hope the first chapter gains traction on streaming or in whatever time it has in theaters and the rest of the story finds an audience.
For all of the people who complain there aren't original films, that there are only sequels, remakes and super-hero flicks, well...here's something that's not any of those things. It's also not particularly short or concluded in one film. It doesn't have a world conquering villain, a multi-verse, or jokes every 20 seconds. It requires some measure of attention be paid. It's also not Barbie, Oppenheimer or Bohemian Rhapsody. It's longer, takes its time and creates a long form story. It's a handsome piece of Americana and American Cinema is on life support. So enjoy it while you can.
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