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 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

We're all going around in circles here. To get straight to the point and answer the question that was originally asked, "Why won't boutique label produce "real" albums?

It's simple. Because there simply is not enough DEMAND for them to be made anymore and most people want the C & C releases. We can go on and on and on and on 'til the cows come home as to the reasons why it got to this point. We can speculate all we want and come up with many reasons why. But at the end of the day the reason is DEMAND. And there simply isn't really any for the old-fashioned, truncated LP albums to be made any longer when the buyer DEMAND is clearly for C & C releases. The labels aren't going to put out releases that only a tiny fraction of their consumer base prefers.

It makes zero business sense to sell something most people do not want.


The number of people who buy these archival releases represent a tiny, tiny percentage of music consumers. There is very little demand for $20 archival discs of film scores, as dwindling sales attest. These albums once sold out in a single day. Those days are gone.


The biggest reason for drop in sales is (A) People don't have the spending money they used to have (B) Postage rates are to high (C) A lot of high profile titles aimed at the soundtrack collector has been released.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:31 AM   
 By:   .   (Member)

Thor also listed Polyanna as a good example of what he advocates.
I love this CD. But I'm surprised you do, Thor. Of 23 tracks, only ONE reaches 2 minutes in length. And TEN of them are well under a minute. How did this reflect your desire for the construction of a flowing, artistically constructed album?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:35 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I haven’t even noticed that the tracks are short, so they must have done something right in the assembly. Another short score, btw.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

It should also be noted that most C&C releases are fan favourites where the score has achieved some cult following - either through its original album or through its lack of an original album. People like it, so they want more.

Premiere releases of new scores still tend to be arranged more creatively because they have yet to prove themselves.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:53 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I haven’t even noticed that the tracks are short, so they must have done something right in the assembly. Another short score, btw.

Yes, it has to do with length of final decays and amount of space between tracks.

You can have an album with lots of short tracks that flow seamlessly. The recentish recording of Herrmann's 451 is a great example of this.

Alternately, you can have an album with longer tracks, but lots of silence embedded within.

Either way, the pacing makes a huge difference in how the finished product is perceived by the listener.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

I haven’t even noticed that the tracks are short, so they must have done something right in the assembly. Another short score, btw.

Hadn't even noticed... indeed.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 10:55 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

It should also be noted that most C&C releases are fan favourites where the score has achieved some cult following - either through its original album or through its lack of an original album. People like it, so they want more.

You can give the listener more in an aesthetically organized presentation, or you can give the listener more with an archival presentation. The latter is not a requirement.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:04 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

It should also be noted that most C&C releases are fan favourites where the score has achieved some cult following - either through its original album or through its lack of an original album. People like it, so they want more.

You can give the listener more in an aesthetically organized presentation, or you can give the listener more with an archival presentation. The latter is not a requirement.


Not a requirement but a very relevant choice.

And archival does not equal bad.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Not a requirement but a very relevant choice.

Relevant to some, perhaps, but not others; hence the thread.

And archival does not equal bad.

If it requires work on my part, I consider it bad.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:12 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Yes, it has to do with length of final decays and amount of space between tracks.

You can have an album with lots of short tracks that flow seamlessly. The recentish recording of Herrmann's 451 is a great example of this.


Exactly. A great deal of Thomas Newman soundtracks too, wherein I haven't really been bothered by the short tracks. Generally, I don't care or look at track titles while I'm listening, and certainly not lengths (unless I'm writing a review or something). I press play and let it play out untill it finishes.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:16 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Not a requirement but a very relevant choice.

Relevant to some, perhaps, but not others; hence the thread.

And archival does not equal bad.

If it requires work on my part, I consider it bad.


It's your choice to do that.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:17 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

It's your choice to do that.

It is often required if I am going to listen to the album.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

It is often required if I am going to listen to the album.

Same here. 'Playlisting' is an emergency situation for me, when no OST or other listener-friendly reference exists. I do it in order to be able to listen to the album at all, but I would gladly have thrown it away (or deleted it, in this day and age) if a proper composer/producer-assembled album was made available.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

I suspect that the "artistic" Caldera albums sell for the same reason that the LPs of the past sold. If you want the music from a particular film, they are the only game in town. Would they sell more or fewer copies with a C&C presentation? Until some label tries offering both for a particular score, we'll never know.

 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 11:22 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

When Zbigniew Preisner delivered A History of Eternity, I suggested to him a few cuts. Zbigniew objected to any changes since he had already conceived his music both as a film score and as an album while composing. That meant the score had a concept as it was and any cuts would have destroyed that concept. And who am I to disagree with Zbigniew Preisner? I accept that happily. I respect that and shut the f*ck up.



 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 1:19 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

It's your choice to do that.

It is often required if I am going to listen to the album.


Funnily enough, I never feel the urge. I may listen to it in installments if I'm pushed for time, but I never need or want to reconstruct it before listening.

I can't believe the lengths some people go to, to NOT listen to music!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

I actually love the first few play throughs of a new or expanded score release, wherein I savour all the music available to me, and then edit/prune the tracks into the ones I like the best and will use as my eventual, final play list programme.
I've yet to meet the person who knows what music I like to listen to, above or beyond myself.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

I actually love the first few play throughs of a new or expanded score release, wherein I savour all the music available to me, and then edit/prune the tracks into the ones I like the best and will use as my eventual, final play list programme.
I've yet to meet the person who knows what music I like to listen to, above or beyond myself.




I'm the same.
If I listened the way Thor and OnyaBirri advocate, I'd feel like a potted plant sitting in the listening room, getting some water whenever someone else decides how much or how little I need.

 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   darthbrett   (Member)



As a C&C, MAN AT THE TOP would be a few minutes longer. I cut about 5 minutes and put the cues in a different order for more variety. I found the score originally quite tedious and repetitive while listening to it for the first time as C&C. Some cuts and a different order helped.


This is a not a knock against you personally at all, but more or less a statement on why I am against edited albums. But this is another BIG reason why I would rather see every score be released C & C. I don't want someone else choosing for me what they personally considered "a better way" to listen to the score. I'd rather that be left up to the listener/consumer buying the score released. What one person feels is not worthy of a release or making the cut may have been deemed a total must from another person in the same exact position.

This is why so many people look forward to C & C releases on here. A piece of music that someone may have absolutely loved from a score and wanted to hear was determined to be excess, repetitive, or not worth keeping on the original album and left off. So getting those previously unreleased cues, whether the music is a favorite of a producer or whomever making that decision or not, is presented for everybody to listen and appreciate. And that is very satisfying and quite gratifying.


-- Unrelated --
Regarding demand for C&C scores, I have to say it is quite telling when you look on every thread for a new score release announced on here and make a note on how many posts are made about a cue that will finally be able to be heard for the first time in all it's glory. Just look at the Land Before Time, The Last Castle or War of the Worlds threads right now to see this. Hearing a score re-mastered is always welcome and rewarding. But sometimes (a lot of times for me personally) hearing those cues that were never released before is as equally, if not more, exciting.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 27, 2020 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I can't believe the lengths some people go to, to NOT listen to music!

I own literally thousands of albums. I'm not going to listen to the bad ones when I can listen to the good ones.

If I can make a satisfying album out of an archival presentation, I will do this, but as I wrote earlier, I don't think it should be the listener's job to finish someone else's album.

 
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