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Rather than arguing with others about my preferences on releases, my preference is that Varese keep churning out new ones every couple of months. It wasn't all that far back when it looked like the Varese CD Club might be past history. I'm super excited that the Club is rolling like thunder these days.
SCOTT
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I'm glad they're rolling stuff out, glad for those who want these titles, but they haven't put out anything that I'd personally buy for some time, certainly nothing from that list of their most recent releases. Maybe next time . . .
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I'm glad they're rolling stuff out, glad for those who want these titles, but they haven't put out anything that I'd personally buy for some time, certainly nothing from that list of their most recent releases. Maybe next time . . .
But the key is that they keep rolling them out in short regularity.
If the music is available, that increases the odds that we all will get what we want in time.
SCOTT
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I did not fully read all the back and forth going on about MacARTHUR in this thread, but does Varese even have any control any more with regard to all the MCA releases they did way back? (Intrada just did THE EIGER SANCTION).
And are the original film recordings available? You can't expand an LP release.
Seems this title if expanded would be a La La Land or Intrada target. And I'd love to have the expanded film tracks.
SCOTT
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This is what I've been trying to tell people, Scott. Varese doesn't control MacArthur any more than they did Eiger Sanction. It can be confusing sometimes though, because Varese did sometimes get perpetuity rights (which included the film recording) when they produced a re-recording themselves, as in the case of Brainstorm by Horner, Eye of the Needle by Rozsa, or Pee-Wee's Big Adventure by Elfman.
Some people still thought Varese controlled Masada when all they did was sub-license the MCA album recording. (Then Intrada came out with the complete film recording.)
moolik, re: Love Field it's important to keep in mind that over half the score wasn't used in the film, and only about half the score was released on the original 28.5 minute album:
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7704
In fact, I think the unreleased music from Love Field is longer than the entire score of Shamus. Best to hear the whole thing before you judge it, because it was a substantially unused score.
Yavar
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Yes, from LLL or Intrada.
Admittedly I have been a lot more excited about their releases. Varese seems to just be interested in expanding their older titles, but there are some really good ones still out there. RUDY would top my list. LOVE FIELD is also very nice.
SCOTT
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This is what I've been trying to tell people, Scott. Varese doesn't control MacArthur any more than they did Eiger Sanction. It can be confusing sometimes though, because Varese did sometimes get perpetuity rights (which included the film recording) when they produced a re-recording themselves, as in the case of Brainstorm by Horner, Eye of the Needle by Rozsa, or Pee-Wee's Big Adventure by Elfman.
Some people still thought Varese controlled Masada when all they did was sub-license the MCA album recording. (Then Intrada came out with the complete film recording.)
moolik, re: Love Field it's important to keep in mind that over half the score wasn't used in the film, and only about half the score was released on the original 28.5 minute album:
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7704
In fact, I think the unreleased music from Love Field is longer than the entire score of Shamus. Best to hear the whole thing before you judge it, because it was a substantially unused score.
Yavar
Are film elements out there for MacARTHUR?
SCOTT
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Admittedly I have been a lot more excited about their releases. Varese seems to just be interested in expanding their older titles,
Certainly nobody can compete with Intrada when it comes to Goldsmith this past year and a half. Five total premieres, plus new recordings of two more announced? That's pretty much impossible for anyone to beat.
As for Varese concentrating on expansions of titles they control, that's fine by me because 1) nobody else can expand those and 2) the last times they tried releasing premieres (like Rosenthal's Rooster Cogburn and Conti's The Big Fix) the sales were so disappointing that they ended up on sale for $5-10 in their recent clearance push. 
As Varese producer Bryon Davis wrote in a thread last year (https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=140019&forumID=1&archive=0):
"Why everyone wants the same scores over and over again..I dont get but well...
Why not the rest of the unreleased stuff..not much left so...
I 100% agree with you but the issue is that nobody is supporting many of them. The deluxe editions are the ones people are buying."
but there are some really good ones still out there. RUDY would top my list. LOVE FIELD is also very nice.
I'm with you on your appreciation for both, though Rudy is missing far less music (only about 12 more minutes on the DVD's isolated score track, anyway -- maybe there are alternates or unused cues that weren't on that though) compared with Love Field. The other Varese-controlled Goldsmith titles I want most are Medicine Man (at least 15 minutes missing), The Other (over half the score missing), Matinee (the last remaining incomplete Dante collaboration), and Mom and Dad Save the World (great zany and creative "honorary Dante score" IMO). I'd also love to get complete versions of City Hall (only about as much missing as Rudy, but maybe a little more variety in that) and the two Flint scores (over half unreleased for each) -- especially the original Our Man Flint.
Are film elements out there for MacARTHUR?
I haven't heard that they are lost (either publicly or privately), but I also have no knowledge of anyone actually working on a release for them. But it seems like Universal stuff from the 70s tends to survive, so I'd be surprised if we don't see a definitive MacArthur from Intrada or LLL within the next 2-3 years.
Yavar
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Admittedly I have been a lot more excited about their releases. Varese seems to just be interested in expanding their older titles,
Certainly nobody can compete with Intrada when it comes to Goldsmith this past year and a half. Five total premieres, plus new recordings of two more announced? That's pretty much impossible for anyone to beat.
As for Varese concentrating on expansions of titles they control, that's fine by me because 1) nobody else can expand those and 2) the last times they tried releasing premieres (like Rosenthal's Rooster Cogburn and Conti's The Big Fix) the sales were so disappointing that they ended up on sale for $5-10 in their recent clearance push.
but there are some really good ones still out there. RUDY would top my list. LOVE FIELD is also very nice.
I'm with you on your appreciation for both, though Rudy is missing far less music (only about 12 more minutes on the DVD's isolated score track, anyway -- maybe there are alternates or unused cues that weren't on that though) compared with Love Field. The other Varese-controlled Goldsmith titles I want most are Medicine Man (at least 15 minutes missing), The Other (over half the score missing), Matinee (the last remaining incomplete Dante collaboration), and Mom and Dad Save the World (great zany and creative "honorary Dante score" IMO). I'd also love to get complete versions of City Hall (only about as much missing as Rudy, but maybe a little more variety in that) and the two Flint scores (over half unreleased for each) -- especially the original Our Man Flint.
Are film elements out there for MacARTHUR?
I haven't heard that they are lost (either publicly or privately), but I also have no knowledge of anyone actually working on a release for them. But it seems like Universal stuff from the 70s tends to survive, so I'd be surprised if we don't see a definitive MacArthur from Intrada or LLL within the next 2-3 years.
Yavar
Sounds great. And a complete version of THE OTHER had not occurred to me, so that would be a top priority (I'm surprised that hasn't already been done). Goldsmith in the 70's was my favorite era.
Varese still rates high with me just for MIDWAY, DRACULA and THE COWBOYS expansions alone!
SCOTT
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Sounds great. And a complete version of THE OTHER had not occurred to me, so that would be a top priority (I'm surprised that hasn't already been done). Goldsmith in the 70's was my favorite era.
I love all eras of Goldsmith but if I were forced to pick a single decade's worth of his output to take to a desert island or whatever, it would probably be the 60s, followed by the 70s. The 60s have my top two favorite scores of his (Lonely Are the Brave and The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint) while the 70s has arguably his two best contenders for magnum opus (QBVII and Star Trek: The Motion Picture). He also began each decade with an incredible amount of superb work in episodic television (including The Twilight Zone, Thriller, Gunsmoke, Rawhide, etc. in the early 60s and The Waltons, Barnaby Jones, Anna and the King, and Police Story in the early 70s).
The Other was one of the very few theatrical features he scored in 1972 amidst a bunch of episodic television and TV movies, and I think it's an incredible work. The 23 minute single-track Varese suite paired with The Mephisto Waltz I find to be very frustrating, because it leaves out over half the score and even inserts a bit of source music into the middle of the score which you can't skip. When they featured a few individual cues as separate tracks on their Goldsmith at Fox box, it led me to hope that they'd do a definitive expansion later on, but so far nothing (and I know Intrada and Kritzerland wanted to produce a definitive release of this great score, but couldn't due to Varese holding rights in perpetuity).
What we DID get was a great Twilight Time Blu-ray release which included an isolated score track containing about twice as much music as the Varese suite (the perpetuity rights extend only to CD album releases of the score, not iso tracks -- Twilight Time also did isos for the two Flint scores, with twice as much music). The problem with all three Twilight Time isolated score tracks is that they include film edits and such of the cues, which means that in certain cases the Varese albums actually contain music not on the iso tracks! We really need a definitive version, on album, of everything Goldsmith recorded for all three scores. But at least we do have the iso tracks, which is the only reason why Love Field is an even higher priority for expansion than The Other, for me -- both are missing roughly half of the score, on album.
And for that matter, we need a new edition of Mephisto Waltz to give it the treatment LLL gave Planet of the Apes, because just as with PotA, the Varese 90s release omitted certain overlays and sweeteners and had a very different mix from the film. Plus, I'm sure new technology developed in the intervening quarter century could make Mephisto Waltz sound a LOT better. Hopefully Varese can revisit these Fox titles despite Disney buying Fox. I guess we'll see. It seems like the LLL PotA box happened at the *exact* right time that it could happen, when Varese was willing to sub-license the two Goldsmith scores they controlled, but before the Fox transfer to Disney was finished.
Yavar
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Sounds great. And a complete version of THE OTHER had not occurred to me, so that would be a top priority (I'm surprised that hasn't already been done). Goldsmith in the 70's was my favorite era.
I love all eras of Goldsmith but if I were forced to pick a single decade's worth of his output to take to a desert island or whatever, it would probably be the 60s, followed by the 70s. The 60s have my top two favorite scores of his (Lonely Are the Brave and The Artist Who Did Not Want to Paint) while the 70s has arguably his two best contenders for magnum opus (QBVII and Star Trek: The Motion Picture). He also began each decade with an incredible amount of superb work in episodic television (including The Twilight Zone, Thriller, Gunsmoke, Rawhide, etc. in the early 60s and The Waltons, Barnaby Jones, Anna and the King, and Police Story in the early 70s).
The Other was one of the very few theatrical features he scored in 1972 amidst a bunch of episodic television and TV movies, and I think it's an incredible work. The 23 minute single-track Varese suite paired with The Mephisto Waltz I find to be very frustrating, because it leaves out over half the score and even inserts a bit of source music into the middle of the score which you can't skip. When they featured a few individual cues as separate tracks on their Goldsmith at Fox box, it led me to hope that they'd do a definitive expansion later on, but so far nothing (and I know Intrada and Kritzerland wanted to produce a definitive release of this great score, but couldn't due to Varese holding rights in perpetuity).
What we DID get was a great Twilight Time Blu-ray release which included an isolated score track containing about twice as much music as the Varese suite (the perpetuity rights extend only to CD album releases of the score, not iso tracks -- Twilight Time also did isos for the two Flint scores, with twice as much music). The problem with all three Twilight Time isolated score tracks is that they include film edits and such of the cues, which means that in certain cases the Varese albums actually contain music not on the iso tracks! We really need a definitive version, on album, of everything Goldsmith recorded for all three scores. But at least we do have the iso tracks, which is the only reason why Love Field is an even higher priority for expansion than The Other, for me -- both are missing roughly half of the score, on album.
And for that matter, we need a new edition of Mephisto Waltz to give it the treatment LLL gave Planet of the Apes, because just as with PotA, the Varese 90s release omitted certain overlays and sweeteners and had a very different mix from the film. Plus, I'm sure new technology developed in the intervening quarter century could make Mephisto Waltz sound a LOT better. Hopefully Varese can revisit these Fox titles despite Disney buying Fox. I guess we'll see. It seems like the LLL PotA box happened at the *exact* right time that it could happen, when Varese was willing to sub-license the two Goldsmith scores they controlled, but before the Fox transfer to Disney was finished.
Yavar
Varese I'm sure is rightfully motivated by a profit with their releases. In today's world, would an expanded 90's Goldsmith score out-perform an expanded 60's (The FLINTS) or 70's (THE OTHER, etc.) one financially?
SCOTT
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Varese I'm sure is rightfully motivated by a profit with their releases. In today's world, would an expanded 90's Goldsmith score out-perform an expanded 60's (The FLINTS) or 70's (THE OTHER, etc.) one financially?
I think it probably depends on the 90s score they are compared with. Medicine Man or The 13th Warrior are pretty beloved scores and I think would be guaranteed to sell very well... but then there's Malice or Mr. Baseball which are generally less well-regarded. The Flint films in particular I think would do well, given how fun, action-packed, and James Bond-y they are. I think that Varese's previous album in the 90s sold well, and the action and spy genres in general tend to be quite popular. The Other might be a bigger question mark as I don't know how well known the film is, but it's from the director of To Kill a Mockingbird fer cryin' out loud, and the horror genre also tends to be popular among film music fans.
But Intrada's Black Patch/The Man Kickstarter has pretty conclusively proved that even fairly obscure Goldsmith does well: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/129145902/black-patch-the-man-jerry-goldsmith-new-recording
Yavar
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If Varese keeps this pace of new clubs every two months
They've actually been releasing club titles every 1.6 months this year.
Friday January 8th - Looney Tunes Back In Action & Babe
Friday March 19th (10 weeks later) - Along Came A Spider & The Serpent and the Rainbow
Friday April 30th (6 weeks later) - Lionheart & Knowing
Friday June 11th (6 weeks later) - The Matrix and Paycheck
Friday August 27th (11 weeks later) - Love Field & Dante's Peak
Forgot to acknowledge this Jason, thanks for pointing out that it's less than every two month - the more the merrier. 
Lionheart was more like July because of sloppiness.
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