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I'm so happy to read all these positive reactions.
I didn't doubt they would be, but... it's confirmed. 
I'm off to offer a 2nd copy. For a Christmas gift.
Think about it.
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On the other hand, you all talking about this (I missed the last few days) finally convinced me to order The, err, Bride, so you can take comfort that your efforts led to another sale. And I also ordered The Orphanage, to support both new recordings.
Not everyone on the Internet needs to be paid attention to, however much fuss they make. Just like in the rest of life.
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Well, I contributed on that Facebook thread because those two folks were putting everybody else off buying it.
They seemed to think that if they could stop everybody else buying it, that Bill Stromberg would change his mind and do his own recording.
Anyway, I see everything I contributed has been deleted. Seems like it's not so much a discussion board as a place for people to say what they think without reply.
What I said is, sure, you'll hear some interpretive differences, but then I can hear interpretive differences in other Herrmann re-recordings I love too.
I made that point that this recording of BRIDE is closer to the original than Elmer Bernstein's GHOST AND MRS MUIR is, and I love Elmer Bernstein's GHOST and so do they.
However, Thomas M claimed it's not about interpretive differences, he claims the orchestra and conductor are simply terrible and turned in a terrible, unrehearsed performance. He and Louis both seem to think there was no read through or rehearsal. They seem to think both orchestra and conductor turned up one day to scores they'd never seen before and didn't care about for an easy pay day and just recorded it without care.
That's definitely not how I hear it. I think it's fabulous. Okay, you can nitpick, but you can nitpick anything. I've been playing it endlessly and I push the volume up a little bit more with each listen because I'm digging it so much.
Anyway, I protested, but everything I said is all gone now.
Hey ho.
Your posts were deleted??? Were mine? Because if that's true then that group was started by Muething and/or Goldberg or both.
Just looked - some posts have been removed and I've asked why. But at least one of yours is still there, Stephen, as are most, but not all, of mine. What's missing from me is my calling out Muething for not answering the simple question of whether he's heard the CD or not.
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I believe I solved The Mystery of the Missing Posts. I believe the scum known as Muething removed the most incendiary of his posts because of the responses he'd gotten and the fact that he would not answer my simple question, asked repeatedly, if he was basing his assessment on the sound samples, which we know he was. So, he removed his posts knowing full well than in so doing all the responses would immediately disappear.
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Received my 2 copies. Packaging and booklet both excellent. Rerecording is sumptuous and beautifully executed.
Excellent product all round.
I hope these guys do more film scores...like Jungle Book perhaps?
Jungle Book will depend on whether or not Intrada decides to do that one.
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Back in the late 80ies, Thomas Müthing was, together with the late Thomas Karban, editor of the German fanzine "FM-Dienst". In this magazine both were pissing regularly on film scores and composers, based on their own "critical" opinion. On the other side, both did praising liner notes for the well know bootlegs from Tsunami. You couldn't take Müthing serious decades ago, you can't do this even today.
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Posted: |
Dec 18, 2018 - 11:27 AM
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By: |
Dadid L
(Member)
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I just got the CD, and started listening to it.
- The packaging in superb : the artworks draws the best of the original visuals, with different graphics on the booklet, the CD, etc.
- The booklet itself is much informative (thanks to Frank K. DeWald), and illustrated with production stills - this is not always the case as these photos have a cost. The effort must be stressed.
- The playing and recording are of high level, Herrmann's spirit and sound are perfectly recreated. I did not make a direct comparison with the original recording (doing it would make little sense to me), but the criticisms apparently mentioned here and there seem totally unfounded.
I find it extraordinary that a label of modest dimensions like Quartet engages time and finances for such a project. So thanks again to them, the Basque National Orchestra, and the whole team involved in this adventure.
One last point: I was stunned to learn that the organ was recorded on the very places of the movie shooting, the Saint-Lambert de Vaugirard church of the 15th arrondissement of Paris! Was this choice made only by perfectionism, for the reference to the film, or were there also practical reasons to record it in France rather than in Spain? Anyway, the result is perfect.
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Hi to everyone,
I have not posted on this board – or even announced our new releases here – for several months because, besides being very busy, I’m a shy man and don’t know what I can contribute. I always prefer that our albums speak for themselves. But now, I think it will be good to clarify certain things in a positive mood.
I expected this brand-new recording might generate some controversy (what release doesn’t these days?), but I honestly did not expect the discussion to go where it has gone. Some comments that have been posted elsewhere – on the Herrmann Facebook board and on our own Facebook page (and that we deleted, because it's our Facebook page after all) – have implied that we stole this project from Mr. William Stromberg. I want to assure everyone that this is absolutely not true.
I'm a huge admirer of Mr. Strombergy and his work; I have all his recordings on both Marco Polo and Tribute. I think his approach to Herrmann is first-rate, as is his interpretation of Steiner (“King Kong” is one of the best re-recordings I've heard), and I'm looking forward to “Dial M For Murder.” But I can’t get into anyone's head and know what they’re thinking. Mr. Stromberg recorded his last album for Tribute seven or eight years ago, and until last September he hadn’t announced his return to the podium with Intrada, or if he had announced it before, I certainly did not know about it. I deeply regret it if he feels disappointed, but I can’t feel guilty about anything.
The story behind “The Bride Wore Black” is as follows: We started thinking about this album in November 2016, the work started in September 2017, and it was recorded a year later, in September 2018. Getting the funds was not easy, and those who have followed Intrada’s and Tadlow's Kickstarter campaigns know how much money we're talking about. A project of this magnitude can’t be organized in a few weeks.
Before preparing the new recording of The Orphanage with Fernando and The Basque National Orchestra last year, we managed to combine a commitment from the orchestra with some financial aid in order to start a series of re-recordings. We had been trying to do this for several years and were excited to see the arrangements coming together. We were hoping to make one new recording a year, starting with "The Orphanage" (a personal desire of Fernando), and continuing with other titles. "The Bride Wore Black" immediately came to mind. It was one of the most popular unreleased scores of Bernard Herrmann, a famous film by François Truffaut, the 50th anniversary of the film would be in 2018, and, above all, I have always felt a personal fascination for this underrated but solid score.
Recording was initially planned for October 2018, but due to a conflict in the orchestra schedule the sessions were advanced to September 13, 14 and 15. The earlier date was not a problem since everything had been prepared by Fernando and his team before the summer.
We prepared an official announcement of this recording, with suitable fanfare, and even made a video about the project. We also planned videos of the sessions, that we had intended to post on Facebook every day of the recording.
But suddenly, on Saturday, September 11, a post announcing a Kickstarter program to finance a new recording of "Dial M for Murder" appeared on both the Intrada forum and on this board. It was a big surprise – and a coincidence. My first human reaction was sadness, but a few hours later I decided to cancel the whole promotion prepared for the recording of "The Bride Wore Black" so as not to steal any thunder away from Intrada’s exciting project. Can you imagine how unpleasant it would be if a label started a Kickstarter campaign to finance a project, in a legitimate and honest way, and another label announced just 48 hours later that they were starting a self-financed new Herrmann recording with others to come later? Honestly, as a professional and colleague, I could not have done this. So we shelved our promotion and continued discreetly with our album. Several people in the business can confirm that this happened exactly as I am saying.
It seems totally insane to read comments on our Facebook page that accuse us of having “stolen this project from Intrada and Stromberg!" Intrada knew about our “Bride” recording in August 2018, and expressed gratitude to us for canceling our promotion and leaving the Intrada announcement without “competition” so that it would have the greatest chance of success. So why are posters trying to create a problem between two labels when none exists?
Responding to some comments I have seen on the Herrmann board and other places:
– Someone took us to task for using trumpets instead of French horns in the cue “The Wedding,” but they are wrong! We used French horns just as Herrmann’s score indicated! There were no trumpets at our sessions. What more can I say?
– Someone pointed out that Herrmann used lots of quick notes in “The Wedding” to create an effect. If this refers to the film version … well, this cue was cut and edited in a rather abrupt manner. We have recorded every note that Herrmann wrote in a coherent way.
– Someone criticized us for only recording the music included in the film and none of the unused material. The film contains 34 minutes of music, our album 57. And if you read Frank K. DeWald’s booklet notes you can discover what was in the film, and what was not.
– “The violins are a disaster because they have little brightness”... In fact, there are no violins in this score. The string section consists of only violas, cellos and basses.
– Someone wondered why our track titles differed from those on file at UCSB ... After a thorough search, the publisher couldn’t find any registered cue titles for this score beyond M1, M2, M3 ... so we had their permission to include our own titles as long as in the mechanical license agreement these were in parentheses after the official film titles. That wasn't necessary in the album, only in the agreement (you can check it on our website), so we decided to create titles that better reflected what is happening in the film. After all, Herrmann's manuscript has no titles other than M1, M2, M3 ...
– "I prefer the synthesizer version that one guy is doing in YouTube instead of your trash recording" … I don’t have an answer to that.
Other posters seem disappointed because they would have preferred William Stromberg conducting. That’s OK, and I can understand that everyone has their preferences, but sorry, this is a recording of an unreleased score by Bernard Herrmann made by another team. No one could be sure that another version could happen. Do I have to apologize for producing this?
About the recording, everything in life can be done better, but something that makes this album special is the spirit that Fernando Velázquez has given it. A conductor is not simply a hand that waves a stick; his personality is also an important part of his job. That’s the art of live music: there are human beings playing, not machines. This and any other score would sound different with Velázquez or William Stromberg, with Nic Raine or Joel McNeely, or Elsa-Peka Salonen, Rumon Gamba, David Newman, Carl Davis, Allan Wilson, Dirk Brossé, John Debney, Bruce Broughton or any other talented conductor at the helm. And the same applies to the orchestras, the environment of any studio, or the mixing engineer. Some recordings are superb and others a disaster. Jerry Goldsmith was highly criticized for his recordings of Alex North and some of his own works, and even Bernard Herrmann was lambasted for taking some of his music too slowly on re-recordings. Many factors impact the final result, and every person has his or her own personal taste. Most of my friends prefer the James Conlon version of “Vertigo,” but I prefer the McNeely. And it's OK.
I would like to say that it is not wise to judge the music of “The Bride Wore Black” by the film recording. Some of the musicians who were at the recording session in Paris still remember how tense was the relationship between Herrmann and Truffaut, and the large number of changes that were improvised on the spot. The recording was not especially terrific; Herrmann conducted some parts but later ceded the work to Andre Girard. So, the choice we made with Fernando was to record the score as it was conceived by Herrmann, respecting the tempo and the intention of what was written. The sound is intentionally a bit raw and dry, due in part to the unusual orchestration but also to Fernando's preference (and our own), without any unreal or processed reverb. Some of the other film recordings from Herrmann’s last period were also beautifully raw and dry (“Sisters,” “It’s Alive,” “Taxi Driver”). This album is a declaration of love and respect for the composer and his music, bringing to life a score that nobody had cared about in 50 years. (Well, that's not entirely fair, since we and many other labels have made great efforts to find the original elements, albeit unsuccessfully.)
But the album is no longer ours, it’s yours, and everyone who spends their money to buy it has the full right to give their opinion, praise or criticize it. But, please, although I'm very used to the heat in the kitchen, it's not fair to say what has been said before even listening to it. This takes away the strength, the courage and the energy of those of us who are trying to save the music we love at a time when the music industry is totally in crisis. Are any of the major companies recording complete classic film scores with a symphony orchestra?
Whoever buys the CD and reads the liner notes will discover on page 21 that we are working (also with Fernando) on “Endless Night” for 2019. Yes, it's a fact. Initially, the intention was to record an album with “The Bride Wore Black” and “Endless Night” together. We mistakenly thought that the scores, about 35 minutes each, could be paired together. But when “Bride” grew to 57 minutes, we chose to focus solely on the Truffaut film.
“Endless Night” is booked with the orchestra for next spring, and the reconstruction work is almost finished, so we have already invested a lot of money. As I said before, "The Orphanage" started a new series with Fernando Velázquez and after these two Herrmanns others could follow. We have our own wish list, which includes “Vera Cruz,” “The Four Feathers,” an album pairing “The Soft Skin” and “Une femme est passé” (Delerue), another devoted to John Addison with “Guns for Batasi” and “Start the Revolution Without Me.” There was also “Murder by Death,” which doesn't make any sense now that Varese has given us the original tracks (at last!) All these are just wishes; nothing is confirmed yet. First, we need to see how our initial titles fare.
One recording every year, if finances and energies permit, and perhaps with the help of Kickstarter if necessary, would make this a beautiful long-term project, which together with the gems brought to us by Tadlow, Prometheus, Intrada and other brave souls, could preserve the legacy of film music. Personally, I’m very excited about this, and I don’t want to feel differently. At the end of the day, it's all about the music.
Jose
By the way Jose, I really appreciate your holding back your announcement because of our Kickstarter campaign, but since you wouldn't have been driving a competing campaign, just the announcement of a new album, I don't think there would have been any issue with you announcing around the same time. So if that happens again, don't think anything of it. I really appreciate your sensitivity, though.
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The fact that there is a new recording of THE BRIDE WORE BLACK is in itself so astonishing, that I will gladly buy it without having listened to any of the samples (I don't all that often listen to samples anyway). I have seen the movie once, that was over thirty years ago, so I can't say I remember much of the music, but it is Bernard Herrmann, so what the heck am I gonna do? Of course I'm buying it.
Now, I agree that just because a new recording has been done, one does not have to love or praise or cherish it, but in a world where new studio recordings of orchestral music are becoming increasingly rare, the effort and passion needed to pull off such a project in the first place should be applauded and commended.
But discussing anything on the Net has become an increasingly frustrating affair. I remember the days of rec.music.movies, and while some discussions got wild and out of hand, it was for a while a very lively place of interesting discussions. This board here is one of the few places left where I still participate here and there in some conversations (after I took a hiatus for several years).
I just joined the Bernard Herrmann Society Discussion Group on Facebook to check out what the fuzz is all about, and indeed, Facebook can be a frustrating venue for discussing things. It is terribly chaotic and confusing to follow lengthier discussions. Can't really quote or relate replies to postings, order subthreats, whatever. And worst of all, if you post an answer to something and the original poster just removes his post, yours is gone as well. Not much point in discussing anything then.
Facebook is OK for some things, but lengthier discussions are not among those things.
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I am thankful that we've never EVER had that kind of problem on Facebook, on our page at least. I've never visited the Hermmann society page before so don't know what they've said about any of our Herrmann releases.
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