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 Posted:   Apr 11, 2023 - 11:36 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

But happily Herrmann doesn't seem to have been influenced to compose stuff like the circus-like, oompah-oompah sections of Goldsmith's "The Legend That Walks Like a Man".

I can hear a bit of Herrmann in "The Convincer" too I think, even when it gets a bit circus-y in sound. It's the repeated cels that evoke Herrmann to my ear, probably.

I don't hate the circusy stuff, but do kinda wish I could edit a "just the pretty parts" of The Legend That Walks Like a Man, for listening. The pretty parts are just so lovely. Unfortunately, apart from "Image of Desire", all the other cues mix the two types of music together, probably because of representing both the legend, and the man.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2023 - 1:18 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

But happily Herrmann doesn't seem to have been influenced to compose stuff like the circus-like, oompah-oompah sections of Goldsmith's "The Legend That Walks Like a Man".

I can hear a bit of Herrmann in "The Convincer" too I think, even when it gets a bit circus-y in sound. It's the repeated cels that evoke Herrmann to my ear, probably.

I don't hate the circusy stuff, but do kinda wish I could edit a "just the pretty parts" of The Legend That Walks Like a Man, for listening. The pretty parts are just so lovely. Unfortunately, apart from "Image of Desire", all the other cues mix the two types of music together, probably because of representing both the legend, and the man.

Yavar






If Herrmann had composed "The Legend That Walks Like a Man", I'm convinced he would have handled the need for brash "circus" music a whole lot more interestingly. I think immediately of the outstanding quality of Herrmann's "Citizen Kane / Welles Raises Kane" where some of the newspaper sections are superficially brash in the extreme, but never sound corny or ugly or uninteresting. Going by this and other scores by Goldsmith, I think he simply couldn't do comedy in any other way than really crude. For me, Goldsmith's lighthearted style is awful "whoopee cushion" stuff.

In contrast, I'm really enjoying the "Hitler's Secret" recording, and even more so after some extra listens.

 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2023 - 3:30 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I will say that while I like many parts of The Legend That Walks Like a Man and I enjoy the variety, the sustained tension of Hitler’s Secret really won me over. And that actiony End Credits cue is just such a powerhouse finish!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2023 - 7:07 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Going by this and other scores by Goldsmith, I think he simply couldn't do comedy in any other way than really crude. For me, Goldsmith's lighthearted style is awful "whoopee cushion" stuff.

I'll defend "The Legend That Walks Like a Man." The thing is, I tend to agree with you – I'm almost never a fan of Goldsmith's comedy scores, including some that seem very beloved here. I don't find the wackiness funny, or fun to listen to.

But I don't happen to find this one "flatulent," though yes, it has all the earmarks of flatulence. Possibly that's because it's so short and spare, possibly that's because it reminds me of Studs Lonigan which I really like a lot. It's broad, yes, but spirited, and I think well-composed. Obviously, ultimately one's reaction to this stuff is emotional, and trying to argue somebody into or out of loving music is a fool's errand. But I'm enjoying it.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2023 - 9:44 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

Possibly that's because it's so short and spare, possibly that's because it reminds me of Studs Lonigan which I really like a lot.



Studs Lonigan is a favorite score of mine too. But the energetic parts of Studs Lonigan never sink to the Benny Hill comedy level of "The Legend That Walks Like a Man".
I would rather describe the Studs Lonigan music as "mischievous" rather than comedic, and "light-footed" rather than lighthearted.

 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2023 - 10:07 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Just for the record, “The Legend That Walks Like a Man” is not a comedy (there’s no slapstick and no jokes), and the score works quite well in context. It’s kind of a cheerful and good-natured… tragedy, somehow? I’m happy to send the episode to anyone here who’s curious to see it and hear the original recording in context. Just email me at moradi (dot) yavar (at) gmail (dot) com.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 4:38 AM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

btw, if the CD is going to happen and it is so often mentioned as 75 minutes... are those remaining scores really that long? I counted first 4 volumes and those are "only" 37 minutes +/-

Either way the final campaign(s) / volume(s) can't come soon enough smile

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 6:28 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Well 37 minutes and change x 2 = 74-75 minutes. I think Leigh was just guesstimating based on that.

If you want a more detailed answer, the “My Dark Days” two parter is only ~14 minutes total based on the film rip I have (which is what Leigh would use to reconstruct, but of course timings don’t always stay identical with a new recording). It’s very sparsely scored… only around 6 minutes of music in one part and 8 minutes in the other, I believe.

But the two remaining single parters which I was only able to locate in (thankfully complete) written form are definitely longer than either part of “My Dark Days” is on its own. Goldsmith included written timings on all of his cues except the final ones (since they’re accompanying End Credits there was nothing he had on screen he needed to hit). As far as I can tell both “The Committeeman” and “Last Dance” are approximately 10 minutes long, give or take (more likely they go over 10 min a bit). So my guess is the final CD will be at least 72 minutes, and maybe a little longer… but again, no way to know exactly until these are actually recorded.

By the way, for those wondering about “Mister Doc” (which aired as episode 30 In the final GE Theater season of 35 episodes)… Leigh still wants to record it for a future project! But if included with the other remaining GE Theater scores we have to tackle, it would definitely push this over into a 2 CD set because it’s the longest score, around 15 minutes for a single half hour episode!

It also makes some sense to leave it off this already-packed GE Theater volume, because when Jerry actually wrote it in early 1961, it *wasn’t* for GE Theater, but was a separate series pilot which just didn’t make it to series. So it’s more akin to Prudence and the Chief (also 15 minutes for a half hour pilot that didn’t go to series.) It’s not only bigger than the typical GE Theater score in terms of length, but also a little bigger than typical in terms of ensemble. (Pilots would usually get a little bigger musical budget than regular episodes of anthology TV.)

I’ve got some other exciting things in mind which it could be suitably paired with, so just be patient and as long as the crowdfunding support continues for these, I think Leigh wants to make it happen. For now let’s not get ahead of ourselves….first, Leigh has to tackle “The Committeeman”, “Last Dance”, and the two parter “My Dark Days” (for which he has to reconstruct about 14 minutes of often-obscured music entirely by ear!)

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 7:49 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I’ve got some other exciting things in mind which it could be suitably paired with, so just be patient and as long as the crowdfunding support continues for these, I think Leigh wants to make it happen.

As the voice from the cornfield says, if you record it, I will buy.

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Well, Leigh's the one who records it; I don't have anything to do with that part.

But with the Kickstarter/crowdfunding model, it's more like "If (enough of) you buy, we will record it." razz

The sky is really the limit as long as the crowdfunding support is maintained. Between Playhouse 90, Studio One, Climax, and a bunch of TV one-offs, there's plenty to potentially keep Leigh's Goldsmith Television Anthology project chugging along for years and years, with The General Electric Theater only the first of a dozen volumes or more! (And that's not even including all of Goldsmith's varied output for radio!) But first we've got to finish this first one. smile

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   MichaelM   (Member)

So far I'm really enjoying my 37-minute digital album of these miniature Goldsmith scores. It's truly amazing how fully formed Goldsmith as a composer was even at the beginning of his career. Many thanks to Mr. Phillips for bringing these back to life with such quality and thoughtfulness.

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Which is your favorite of the two scores Leigh recorded in 2022, and which is your favorite of the two he recorded in late January of this year?

It's truly amazing how fully formed Goldsmith as a composer was even at the beginning of his career.

I think it's because Goldsmith's formative years as a composer were really 1951-1955, well before he scored his first film Black Patch in 1957. (By the way, have your heard his first masterpiece for radio, "1489 Words", from earlier that same year?) Most fans aren't aware of that era, and much of his work from it has alas been lost to time, but on some of his radio stuff of the time he doesn't sound quite as fully formed, though there are certainly hints of his voice! It blew my mind when Jeff Bond pointed out to me an *identical* passage to one in The Secret of NIMH three decades later, in his four minute long score for Columbia Workshop's "We Gather Together", broadcast for Thanksgiving 1951. And Goldsmith no doubt did some composition work before that, like scoring a student film or two while in school, and the mysterious "children's record" he told Jon Burlingame he did in his late teens as his first paid music gig, in the late 1940s.

Patrick Doyle certainly burst onto the film scoring scene "fully formed" as a film composer with Henry V in 1989, but he had been scoring plays before that, music which most of us fans have never heard and will likely never hear... we just kinda missed the formative stage; it's not that he somehow skipped it like say Korngold apparently did.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 10:30 AM   
 By:   MichaelM   (Member)

Which is your favorite of the two scores Leigh recorded in 2022, and which is your favorite of the two he recorded in late January of this year?




The Bar Mitzvah of Major Orlovsky and Hitler's Secret.

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 10:53 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Same here! And in a bit of a neat coincidence, those constitute Goldsmith's last score written for the series and first score written for the series, respectively (in terms of what survived for us to know about, at least)!

What I've done is re-order all four scores in the order that Goldsmith wrote them, and made a 37+ minute album in iTunes for myself, like so:



It plays really well as an album, and I can't wait to expand it further with the remaining scores Leigh's going to tackle for the series later this year!

Oh, we also did a Production Report episode of The Goldsmith Odyssey for anyone interested to listen (there are a lot of sound clips if you weren't a backer on this Kickstarter round, in advance of you being able to purchase these scores for lossless download in a month or two):
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/12559309-production-report-the-legend-that-walks-like-a-man-hitler-s-secret-2023-leigh-phillips-recording



Curious to know what people think of that podcast episode, too!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 14, 2023 - 6:06 PM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

In the original podcast for The Legend that Walks Like A Man I think Clark, or maybe David suggests that the End Credits was actually the Main Titles, the same cue just sped up. Was this actually the case or was it in fact a differently recorded cue? Leigh might have mentioned it in the production report but I may have missed it.

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2023 - 3:28 PM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

In the original podcast for The Legend that Walks Like A Man I think Clark, or maybe David suggests that the End Credits was actually the Main Titles, the same cue just sped up. Was this actually the case or was it in fact a differently recorded cue? Leigh might have mentioned it in the production report but I may have missed it.


It was re-recorded. I said the other was likely because I'd slowed the End Credits down, and the timing was an exact match, beat for beat, to the Main Titles. We'd found some cues altered in this way, most notably for Nervous Man in a Four Dollar Room's final cue, and here and there in a couple of other productions, so it was a possibility to check. My confirmation for a match is 'phasing' (the sound the drums make in Tears for Fears' Head Over Heels*), where two identical recordings are played together with the amount of timing differences attributable to analog imperfections, and one catches up with, matches, then passes the other's timing. When the source is already rough, that might not happen even if the recordings are exact, and it didn't happen with these two, but otherwise, once slowed down, the match was spot-on, so it seemed more likely a match than not.

Leigh notices differences in the piano playing though, which clinches it as a different performance.


* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsHiG-43Fzg&t=161s

 
 Posted:   Apr 15, 2023 - 6:09 PM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

Thanks David.

 
 Posted:   May 30, 2023 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   LeighPhillips   (Member)

The latest GE Theater recordings should be available from the main digital stores (i-tunes, Amazon, Qobuz) on June 16

Some pesky gremlins delayed the launch date by a few days (originally June 12)


For those who might be interested, the Odyssey team covered the recording session in their production report: https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/12559309-production-report-the-legend-that-walks-like-a-man-hitler-s-secret-2023-leigh-phillips-recording

 
 Posted:   May 30, 2023 - 11:16 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I have a technical question re Cover Art for these in iTunes (which I still use on a PC).

I cannot attach the artwork images to the albums - in fact, can't add any artwork at all to these files. I've tried a bunch of different ways and can't figure out what's wrong.

It's the first time in a history of thousands of albums that I've had this problem. Could it be something about how iTunes converted the downloaded files?

 
 Posted:   May 30, 2023 - 11:26 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Are they WAV files? I'm pretty sure it's not possible to add artwork to that lossless audio format, and you'd need to convert to FLAC (for PC) or Apple lossless (for Mac).

Yavar

 
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