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I really suspect if it had had a more reasonable goal, it would be a much higher number pledged right now.
Yavar
I actually don't think so, even if it had a 50K goal.
I'm not saying they would have necessarily reached their goal Bruce; I'm just saying it would be a much higher number (I'd say probably double or more).
The approach was so wrong-headed from the start and that really started it off on the wrong foot. You cannot rush into these things - they really have to be thought out, analyzed, and then you have to be appealing (as in making people excited) right out of the gate. If you falter at step one you never EVER recover.
Yes, that usually seems to be the case with these sorts of crowdfunding campaigns. If it's not, say, at least a third of the way funded in the first week, I think it's very unlikely to happen. Hopefully they start off better on their second attempt.
I can think of a couple of reasons. The biggest one though, probably, imight be, that those scores are not very much wanted I guess.
I think that's very much the wrong take away from this. Horner is a beloved composer and these are indeed among his most high profile unreleased scores (maybe Volunteers, which has surviving tapes but is tied up by HBO, would be ahead of them?)
Before Intrada did their first Kickstarter campaign for Tiomkin's Dial M for Murder, I saw literally *nobody* asking for a new recording of that score on the boards. And I've been reading FSM pretty religiously for decades now. They didn't hold a poll before it to see what options folks might prefer, like they've done twice since. Yet they not only met goal but surpassed it by a nice chunk of change at the end, from last minute stragglers.
I´m not an expert on funding, but I have the feeling that you need to have a project , that is not only "fan" driven, but has potential to attract soundtrack lovers regardless of their specific favorite.
Goldsmith might be an exception, because his fanbase is rather large.
Yes, Goldsmith's fanbase is large and his fans will consistently buy even his more obscure works. The labels have told us this time and time again. They have *also* told us that the two other composers who are in that same tier of popularity (based on their concrete sales numbers!) are Williams and Horner, far ahead of *anyone* else including big names like Herrmann or Elfman.
Maybe I´m wrong. But THE HAND and THE DRESSER..even when released "commercially" wouldn´t have sold well....
Yes, you are wrong. The labels keep releasing Horner scores (even ones more obscure than those...House of Cards, anyone? Jack the Bear was released TWICE!) because the majority of them sell very well. Multiple label heads have been very consistent in telling us that Horner reliably sells, and I don't think they would lie about this. Why would they?
I do think Yavar is right and that there'd be a higher pledge amount if the goal was a lot smaller. A lot of people aren't going to bother if the amount seems completely unreasonable whereas when it seems plausible people will (especially near the end......I doubt almost anyone who waited for the two day email bothered)
Exactly; thanks for backing me up, TerraEpon. As we saw even recently from the Christopher Young campaign, a lot of people wait until the last couple days to pledge. A week or two earlier and lots of people were very worried that campaign would reach its goal, and yet it went several thousand dollars over. But at this point so near to the end, when most campaigns would be getting their biggest traffic since launch day, most potentially interested parties would say, "why bother?" because it's clearly not going to make goal now.
I do agree given what they got that it wouldn't have nessesarily made it, but I'd wager it'd be more like 20-25K than the 13k it's at now.
At least. I'd like to think it would be much higher. But my fear that it could be that low is why above in this thread I was encouraging the team to run only The Dresser as the main goal of the next campaign for $20,000 or so, and have the concert works and even The Hand as stretch goals. This approach would virtually guarantee we get *something* newly recorded by Horner rather than nothing, and then any additional attention and $$$ could lead to a fuller album.
Yavar
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Kickstarter | Re-entry and Splashdown
We are excitedly happy to announce our new Kickstarter campaign for our passion project later this month. This one will be without the concert works and it’ll focus on the two scores from THE HAND and THE DRESSER. While the omitting of the 14 concert works is regrettable, it's of financial necessity. I know that you share our enthusiasm and love for the music of James Horner. Having the blessing and support of Sara Horner means the world to us and cements our vision to bring these unreleased gems in the Horner canon to a wider audience.
We sincerely hope that this meets with your approval and know we can count on your continued support for our renewed campaign. For James!
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I don't think the backers were pining for the concert works....
Thanks for the update!
Actually, the concert works would be of most interest to me. But I like the other things as well.
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We sincerely hope that this meets with your approval and know we can count on your continued support for our renewed campaign.
I'll certainly pledge again but I worry if the goal you set is much higher than Intrada's $60,000 for their Bernard Herrmann twofer (which they only just barely crossed going $703 over), you may face a repeat of what happened here. Again, $60,703 is the RECORD highest amount of money raised by any crowdfunding campaign to re-record classic film music, to date:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/129145902/on-dangerous-ground-the-man-who-knew-too-much-new-recordings
I'm sure that a future campaign can top it at some point, but as this is your first such project and you haven't been gradually building up to it the way Intrada built up to their most ambitious Herrmann campaign, please consider cutting as many costs as possible at the initial stage (perhaps having stretch goals to fly in and house conductor Matt Dunkley and pianist Gloria Cheng in Prague, because you could make do with Prague-based professionals in a pinch) in order to have a goal which is as likely to happen as it can possibly be. Once you reach the initial minimum goal, the possibilities for growth are considerable. But you have to get there first!
Yavar
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Posted: |
May 6, 2024 - 9:19 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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The labels keep releasing Horner scores (even ones more obscure than those...House of Cards, anyone? Jack the Bear was released TWICE!) because the majority of them sell very well. Multiple label heads have been very consistent in telling us that Horner reliably sells, and I don't think they would lie about this. Why would they?
This is true, but I think the question is what "well" means.
I don't know the economics of any specific release, and I definitely don't want to suggest I know more about Robin Esterhammer's business than he does. (Bolded so people don't miss that part.)
But… while Horner may reliably sell, most people aren't completists. Clearly, some sell much better than others. I know nobody will argue this. I wonder how Deadly Blessing sold. Or The Lady in Red. I haven't got a clue. But my guess is, not as well as many others. (But obviously, some releases cost much less than others to produce, too. Again, something we're not really privy to.)
Assuming a 2CD set sells for roughly $32 (seems to be the going rate), for the ±$130,000 this set was going to cost to produce, they'd have to sell more than 4,000 copies just to break even. (Obviously, profit is the goal.) That's a lot, especially since these are not exactly marquee titles.
We are few.
Now maybe a real producer will swoop in here and tell me why my numbers are totally wrong, and in that case, I will cheerfully withdraw my comments. But to me, an amateur, it just seemed like an unrealistic (if passionately arrived at) goal.
EDIT: I see that I blabbed for so long that Mr. Esterhammer has already announced a less ambitious Kickstarter. Good luck!
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Intrada asked $30 for 1CD on their Herrmann twofer.
Yavar
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Sure, but:
1. The reason for the $50,000 was well-explained up front. (They anticipated people would question the number, since a live recording was indeed already “in the can”.)
2. It wasn't an incredibly difficult to reach goal number, but within the range of previous Kickstarter campaigns (the Goldsmith twofer was a goal of $38,000; the Herrmann twofer was $60,000... this was almost exactly halfway between).
3. The higher tier benefits were attractive. Multiple people went in at higher tier levels, in addition to the regular folks like me who just thought $30 for a 2CD set was a great advance purchase deal.
Yavar
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I don't think the backers were pining for the concert works....
Thanks for the update!
Concert works had most appeal to me on this project...
If 'The Hand' and 'The Dresser' are successful, I am sure that the concert pieces will be in the running for another campaign.
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I don't think the backers were pining for the concert works....
Thanks for the update!
Actually, the concert works would be of most interest to me. But I like the other things as well.
For me, the only item of interest was THE HAND (maybe with THE DRESSER as an add-on). The concert works are of no interest to me - as the kickstarter blurb says, hardly anyone knows what these are supposed to sound like - and while there are some instances of film composers' concert pieces being in exactly the same vein as their soundtracks (Michael Kamen's guitar and sax concertos, which are terrific) there are others where, freed of the filmscore requirements, they do their own personal thing and it's wildly different (John Williams' flute concerto, the LP of which never saw the light of day again). Looking at the instrumentation line-up (as illustrated in the Kickstarter blurb) for one of the pieces (Voices) I suspect that Horner's early concert works were in the latter camp. Obviously I don't know for sure, but that was my gut feeling. Besides, I'm a sucker for an 80s horror score and I love what I've heard of WOLFEN.
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