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I think LLL had a good list of priority (they were intending to expand Moonraker, Licence To Kill and TND), hopefully these expansions will be possible after No Time To Die is finaly released:
- Moonraker (not that much missing in terms of time but all the Bond theme variations and everithing else missing is great) and the sound could be much improved also. [I think it was confirmed on this board since a couple of years that the tapes exist and are already digitally transferred - supposedly missing only the tracks with Shirley Bassey's vocals for the song]
- Licence To Kill - Probably the score missing more music and I love this score. Also lots of tracking on this one. I wonder if there are original tracks that were unusued on some of the tracked scenes.
- Tomorrow Never Dies - the aditional album covered the main portions from the ending of the film that were missing. But it is the best Arnold score and would be great to have it complete.
Other than those my priority would be the other Barry scores not yet expanded:
"A View To A Kill", "Octopussy" and "The Man With the Golden Gun"
And the original score for "The Spy Who Loved Me"
Totally agree Dan with your above comments , let’s just hope nothing delays the release of No Time To Die, so hopefully for the 60th Anniversary of Bond in 2022 we can get some more or many Expanded Bond scores
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I think LLL had a good list of priority (they were intending to expand Moonraker, Licence To Kill and TND), hopefully these expansions will be possible after No Time To Die is finaly released:
- Moonraker (not that much missing in terms of time but all the Bond theme variations and everithing else missing is great) and the sound could be much improved also. [I think it was confirmed on this board since a couple of years that the tapes exist and are already digitally transferred - supposedly missing only the tracks with Shirley Bassey's vocals for the song]
- Licence To Kill - Probably the score missing more music and I love this score. Also lots of tracking on this one. I wonder if there are original tracks that were unusued on some of the tracked scenes.
- Tomorrow Never Dies - the aditional album covered the main portions from the ending of the film that were missing. But it is the best Arnold score and would be great to have it complete.
Other than those my priority would be the other Barry scores not yet expanded:
"A View To A Kill", "Octopussy" and "The Man With the Golden Gun"
And the original score for "The Spy Who Loved Me"
Where did LLL list these as a priority? And when were the tapes confirmed found? Not trying to be rude or put you on the spot, just curious.
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For me, complete versions of GoldenEye, A View to a Kill, and Tomorrow Never Dies will make me happy and content. I am leaving out Moonraker only because the masters appear to be lost and God only knows if a proper rerecording will pop up now.
Peter, why are people still saying the Moonraker masters appear to be lost?
Were they found? If they were found I forgot or missed the news entirely!
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Posted: |
Jun 23, 2021 - 8:13 PM
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By: |
townerbarry
(Member)
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This all has to do with…Major Money. No Money, No Honey!
With IMDb, and Wikipedia…all fan based, and lots old wife tales. Lies, and Major Misquotes.
The net is filled with Fans posting 1/2 ass Stories about 1/2 ass lies. Lol.
What I truly learned about all the John Williams scores being released, E.T. Superman, Jaws, The River, Dracula and on and on…that Mike Matessino who finds and cleans up the old tapes said that John Williams told him years ago..Do Not rest with finding the first tapes, ie Superman! Look for other tapes.
As with also…Moonraker and All those wonderful “Lost Tapes” giggles…They are out there, including Raise The Titanic. Someone has them tapes, just like someone had all them John Williams scores that are constantly being released!
Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson first James Bond Film…Tomorrow Never Dies…after their father Cubby Broccoli had past away…They both ask John Barry to come back and write the score(I believe if them Internet crazy stories, Barry was not asked to write the song!) But since John Barry was still asking for Funds from Previous Bond Films, Broccoli and Wilson did not come up with a good price for John Barry, who said it was less funds for his work on The Living Daylights. Out Barry..in Arnold.
With Star Wars Big Ass Box Set…The James Bond Box Set is going to be 100% A Massive Hunt, and MGM was just bought by Jeff Amazon Bezos WHICH might Complicates The whole Bond Issue. All of the James Bond Music is out there…and the largest hurdles is The Broccoli’s and Mrs. John Barry.and Now Bezos. I truly believe that John Williams Score to The Sugarland Express will be Released before We Hear Moonraker!
I hope it happens, but real is real..it is all about who signs the checks and whom is getting paid!
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Mike Gerhard of La-La-Land posted (perhaps ill-advisedly) on a James Bond music group on Facebook that in 2019, the label had plans to release:
1. A 30th anniversary edition of Licence to Kill
2. A 40th anniversary edition of Moonraker
3. A 50th anniversary 2CD edition of OHMMS
Wouldn't that have been fantastic?
However, those plans were not realized and it is unknown (to us) how far those plans got.
Maybe far, maybe not very far at all.
I'm only posting this because Mr. Gerhard made it public on that group. I wouldn't if it was just insider knowledge.
However, people have taken that information and spun it into a yarn that those titles are all ready to go. I think that may be a case of adding two and two and making five.
As it is with various apocryphal stories about lost tapes and stuff.
On that, in the 2003 FSM editions speaking of the then-new Bond CD reissues, Lukas Kendall did suggest the tapes were lost, but only to the extent that they weren't stored with the other recordings they were working with, and there was no budget to go looking for them.
That got spun into a whole “Moonraker tapes are (definitely) lost” narrative, a misquotation that grew arms and legs and became urban myth, as the story got spun out, like that the tapes were dumped by Davout, etc.
However, even if a copy of Moonraker was still at Davout when they cleared out, at least one copy was not, because the dubbing happened in England and the tapes were shipped there. There's no reason to think they would have been shipped back, as Davout was not set up to be a storage facility.
Anyway, we've since had assurances by people in the know that the Moonraker recordings are safe and were transferred digitally some time ago. I can't certify that as true first hand, no, but multiple people have told us that and I am inclined to believe it.
Others who are knowledgeable about how the industry works have pointed out that even if the first generation masters were lost, there would always have been other copies cut for different uses.
Sometimes, they tell us, when complete scores are assembled for CD, they're assembled from a chaos of sources rather than one single clear cut master tape. Maybe that's the Moonraker story. I don't know.
So, right now, I think there's more reason to believe the recorded music exist than that it is lost.
But then, like James says, the merger comes and makes releases seem increasingly less likely.
Cheers
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Posted: |
Jun 24, 2021 - 4:07 AM
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By: |
Dr Smith
(Member)
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James Bond - The Missing Music has been a fantastic discussion thread on FSM
I think there is way more than 8-10 minutes of missing music from Moonraker. I estimate about 30 minutes or more, based on bootleg releases.
A final summary is listed below of roughly what is currently missing from each EON James Bond film score that has been released on CD to date :-
DR NO - tecnhically none of the orchestral score is released, around 15-20 minutes
FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE - around 15 minutes
GOLDFINGER - around 15 minutes
THUNDERBALL -20-25 minutes, including some album only recordings and unfinished music
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - if you don't count re-edited cues, this one is mostly complete
ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE - around 10 minutes
DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER - 5 seconds
LIVE AND LET DIE - 5 seconds
THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN - around 25 minutes
THE SPY WHO LOVED ME - the whole score is missing, around 40 minutes
MOONRAKER - around 8-10 minutes
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY - around 10 minutes
OCTOPUSSY - around 25-30 minutes, but that doesn't include any circus music, that was library recording
A VIEW TO A KILL - around 16 minutes
THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS - around 8-10 minutes
LICENSE TO KILL - around 40 minutes
GOLDENEYE - about 20 mins, plus 5:52 for the John Altman tank chase cue
TOMORROW NEVER DIES - about 26 minutes
THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH - complete as per La La Land Records Release 2018
DIE ANOTHER DAY - complete as per La La Land Records Release 2017
CASINO ROYALE (2006 film) - not sure how much in time is still to be released on CD ?
QUANTUM OF SOLACE- not sure how much in time is still to be released on CD ?
SKYFALL - not sure how much in time is still to be released on CD ?
SPECTRE - not sure how much in time is still to be released on CD ?
NO TIME TO DIE - not sure until the film is released in the cinemas how much is still to be released on CD from the film ?
As you can see from above there is so much more music that us James Bond music fans are missing from a large number of the Bond films , so many great cues probably in total over 5 hours of unreleased music, that’s a huge amount of missing music, that deserves to be heard.
La La Land Records have already done a fantastic job of releasing 2 x expanded score versions The World is Not Enough in 2018 & Die Another Day in 2017 in chronological film order.
Let’s hope La La Land Records can continue releasing more James Bond expanded soundtracks once ‘NO TIME TO DIE ’ has been released & let’s hope this happens next year for 60th anniversary in 2022.
Top of my list is Moonraker & LIcence to Kill (this has at least 40 minutes not released), although would really like the following John Barry albums expanded MWTGG, Octopussy & AVTAK & Thunderball (still has about 20 - 25 minutes unreleased music) & non Barry scores TND & TSWLM & Goldeneye (about 25 minutes unreleased music)
I am a great believer that anything is possible, even though I know the 1st Three films Dr No , From Russia With Love & Goldfinger the master tapes are said to be lost but they can always lift them by other means now days.
You never know what might happen with the 60th Anniversary coming up in 2022 for me this is too good an opportunity to miss for the James Bond scores as this is the one category the music that has not been tapped apart from the fantastic expansions Lukas Kendall did in 2003 on 4 of the older scores.
I think it would be great for expanded score box sets for the Bond actors who played Bond , a Sean Connery Box set , a combined George Lazenby & Timothy Dalton Box set, a Roger Moore Box set, a Pierce Brosnan Box set (offer without DAD & TWINE ) & finally a Daniel Craig Box set or other options like a full expanded Bond score Boxset , let’s hope & pray La La Land Records will be able to do this . I would still be happy for more Single double CD Expanded Bond scores as I know the James Bond music community are really hoping this will happen but need more than one Bond score released per year.
Lets hope La La Land Records are looking at all these possible options for the 60th anniversary as it too bigger opportunity to miss, considering the last big lot of expanded Bond scores was in 2003 almost 20 years ago.
What do other Bond Music fans think on this thread of the missing James Bond Music cues & expanding them on new Double CD releases ?
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Bear in mind bootlegs of Moonraker tend to bloat the playlist with suites and cover versions.
Also, the bootlegs are absolutely not original master recordings. They typically use Silva Screen versions, or midi mock-ups, or back-channel rips of the DVD.
Some of them over-process these back-channel rips to rub out dialogue and effects (badly), and sometimes “repair” the badly damaged sound with a midi overdub.
Most sound terrible, although I have heard at least one good midi recreation.
Some even claim to premiere what they claim is “Barry's unused Moonraker overture”, which is a bare-faced lie.
I bet you'll find this “unused” overture on an Erich Kunzel album or something like that.
Sadly, those lies are the price people pay for dealing with these bootleg labels.
Oh, if only I had a dollar for every time somebody told me they possessed the complete original Moonraker and on presentation of a sample to prove it, it was a Silva Screen track or a midi recreation.
Anyway, really, there is only about 10 minutes more of score music, and nobody has released it from the original music only recordings, ever. Not even these bootlegs that lie to claim they have.
It seems longer because it's a fair number of cues, but they're mostly short cues, like less than a minute.
However, who knows if there might alternate versions, alternate takes and longer versions of the source cues that might make a CD longer? I don't.
Cheers
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Bear in mind bootlegs of Moonraker tend to bloat the playlist with suites and cover versions.
Wasn't this recording included on one of them? It's mighty peculiar and if you didn't know what it was supposed to be it would be half over before you realised.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbCjgWj-A2I
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What would Amazon have against future releases?
Because in the movie the Drax’s evil fortress is hidden in the Amazon so they might be afraid of bad publicity.
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What would Amazon have against future releases?
I think it might be a good for the UK & Europe because La La Land Records might be able to cut a deal With Amazon for the Bond Expanded Soundtracks to be sold through them & might cut the shipping costs making the price of the CD less expensive,let’s see what happens, but just hoping for Bond expanded soundtracks in 2022 ????
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"Cutting a deal" with Amazon sounds worse than cutting a deal with Drax, frankly.
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2022 marks the 45th. anniversary of TSWLM. It is the Bond score most in need of an expansion (since the album was a re-recording) and I would like it before i die. I've waited since 1977, that's enough !!!!!
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