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That takes care of that. (Rhymes with cat takes care of cat.) Now we can all go to bed. See you tomorrow.
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The final mutual annihilation shootout between rancher Terrill and Rufus might well have provided the template for the same mutual annihilation shootout between rancher Karl Malden and the sheep farmer in 'Wild Rovers'. In that film, the rancher's sons are similarly forced to carry the father's shadow and avenge him, to their own suffering, just as the BC younger generation are locked in to the feud not of their making.
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And I thought I didn't have to worry about spoiler alerts in this thread, since we've all seen THE BIG COUNTRY...
***
Joan, good thing you've got that DVD, assuming it's letterboxed, which I doubt it is when Encore Westerns plays it.
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And I thought I didn't have to worry about spoiler alerts in this thread, since we've all seen THE BIG COUNTRY...
Sorry about that, Preston, but hey, that's only a small subplot of 'Wild Rovers'!
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I just finished the book that started this thread. Where is my gold star?  Joan described the main threads of the book well in her initial post. I have just a couple of observations.
In her thorough discussion of the music, the author repeatedly talks about Moross's dramatic intentions being altered, even spoiled, by the editor... cues lost, or altered, or revised repeatedly. But Moross's intentions are not the point. It's not his film. This is the mistaken premise I think made often by movie music fans and scholars, that the music has more importance in the film than it actually does, at least from the point of view of the filmmakers. He was not the first or even second composer considered, and for whatever reasons, his music wasn't as acceptable to the filmmakers as we might think it should have been. His music demonstrates his interpretation of the film, but if that's not shared by the filmmakers, so be it. It is the rare movie where the music is built to be essential to the film, and therefore thought about very early on. Moross was a hired gun, and however much the film may have inspired him, these were not his decisions to make.
I think one thing the book does very well is show Moross's unhappiness with being a film composer for this very reason, that these were not his conceptions and he didn't have free reign. Yet at the same time he talks about writing a lot more music for The Big Country than he expects them to use, so he understood his role well....give them more than they need and they can choose what they want. Which also calls into question how much of Moross's conceptions were messed with, since his intention from the first was to give them more than enough to work with.
Much as I love the music on album, I have to say I never missed the music not in the film. I'm the kind of film music fan that never feels more music is called for than I hear in a movie, and sometimes I wish the music would just shut up anyway. So while I'm glad Moross wrote what he did so we can hear it in full, I have no desire to hear it all in the movie. And I'm not going to demonise Wyler or his editor for making decisions they had every right to make.
One more thing. The author keeps saying that the music is remembered but the movie is all but forgotten. That's manifestly untrue and simply looks to be a justification for her argument. Many of us fans know this music well, but how do we judge how well remembered it is generally above the movie? Compared to The Magnificent Seven, for instance, I would say that both the film and score of The Big Country are at about the same place on the familiar-to-obscure scale.
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Posted: |
Feb 5, 2017 - 9:08 AM
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By: |
joan hue
(Member)
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Okay, Sean, sending you via Wi Fi a big gold star. 
You are sharing an interesting aspect of the book that I really didn't write about when I first posted this topic. Moross was unhappy with all the tinkering even though he wrote more music than he knew would be used. Even though directors and producers along with editors have the final say, composers do often think their musical interpretations of various scenes are correct and do get "miffed" when asked to change certain cues or when cues are dropped. Composer really don't "own" their music, but I do think they have pride in their creations. Perhaps some ego too.
"Much as I love the music on album, I have to say I never missed the music not in the film." Interesting statement. The movie does contain a lot of music, and I don't know what else he composed for this movie, but it might have been fun to hear some of those cues that were never used, and that will never happen.
Thanks Sean, and we now have over 8,000 views on a topic that isn't about Star Wars. Yahoo.
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Good point about artistic pride and ego, Joan, key elements in the makeup of all creative artists. And very much exposed under the bright lights of film.
The new gold star is mounted right next to my kindergarten diploma in my study, where it shall always hang proudly.
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Posted: |
Feb 5, 2017 - 11:44 AM
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By: |
Rozsaphile
(Member)
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But Moross's intentions are not the point. It's not his film. This is the mistaken premise I think made often by movie music fans and scholars, that the music has more importance in the film than it actually does, at least from the point of view of the filmmakers. . . . His music demonstrates his interpretation of the film, but if that's not shared by the filmmakers, so be it. It is the rare movie where the music is built to be essential to the film, and therefore thought about very early on. Moross was a hired gun, and however much the film may have inspired him, these were not his decisions to make.. . . I'm not going to demonise Wyler or his editor for making decisions they had every right to make..
Your point is well taken. As Korngold once said, "a film composer's immortality lasts from the recording stage to the dubbing room." I'm sure that every composer who ever worked in Hollywood experienced the same sort of disappointment. I can't help wondering what John Williams really thinks of all the bleeps and explosions and re-edits that have mauled his STAR WARS music over the years. Williams is too much of a gentleman and diplomat to express himself in public, but Moross was a different sort of personality.
That said, one can observe that some few composers are artists of far greater stature than the most of filmmakers they have worked with. And in an ideal world, there would be creative collaboration between director and composer over the entire course of the project to ensure a unity of artistic purpose. It just doesn't happen very often in Hollywood.
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Sean, glad you mastered Kindergarten.
"And in an ideal world, there would be creative collaboration between director and composer over the entire course of the project to ensure a unity of artistic purpose. It just doesn't happen very often in Hollywood."
Rozsaphile's comment is perfect. This idea would make a great topic. I'm sure there are many composers with stories that dovetail with Moross's experience.
The thing is though, in an auteur close relationship between director and composer like that, the composer has no free reign. Elmer Bernstein liked it when a director knew something about music, but he was always vocal about the composer being left to do his own thing and trusted. At any rate, apart from the visuals, you might not get a great album from such a collaboration.
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