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 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 2:17 AM   
 By:   chriss   (Member)

No, because who wants it with FX throughout - certainly not me.

But how much music is on those "some acetates"? Both sources could complement one another quite nicely. We had some good releases from M&E tracks in recent times.

Too sad a release would be to cost prohibitive though!

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 8:18 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Yeah -- we thought we'd never see the original recording for Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and look what Quartet was able to cobble together...

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 8:52 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

We had some good releases from M&E tracks in recent times. Too sad a release would be to cost prohibitive though!

I think the only mention of money was regarding the inclusion of the M/FX on the Criterion videos, not about a CD release:
Preston wrote:
"I'm surprised and thrilled to learn about that isolated M&E track in the UK edition. How I begged and pleaded with the bean-counters at Criterion to do likewise but they insisted their budget couldn't handle the extra cost."

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 9:00 AM   
 By:   chriss   (Member)

We had some good releases from M&E tracks in recent times. Too sad a release would be to cost prohibitive though!

I think the only mention of money was regarding the inclusion of the M/FX on the Criterion videos, not about a CD release:
Preston wrote:
"I'm surprised and thrilled to learn about that isolated M&E track in the UK edition. How I begged and pleaded with the bean-counters at Criterion to do likewise but they insisted their budget couldn't handle the extra cost."


Bruce wrote:
"But it's a moot point because the licensing is too convoluted - you have to deal with Sony on the LP and then the studio on the actual tracks and it would never sell enough to justify the costs."

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Bruce wrote:
"But it's a moot point because the licensing is too convoluted - you have to deal with Sony on the LP and then the studio on the actual tracks and it would never sell enough to justify the costs."


ah, so it's a complicated licensing issue. Maybe you need to know somebody at Sony to pull a few strings. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 2:37 PM   
 By:   finder4545   (Member)

Apart from complications for a CD release, it's really astonishing to learn that a Music-Effects track is on the UK Arrow BD, and this real unexpected surprise enables all of us to listen, at last, to that long-awaited score in a clearer way than ever before!
Having promptly ordered a copy, I remain anxious, and deeply indebted with "films1" who gave this basic news.
Rumours reported that the one-and-only personal copy of the original recording, in "perfect" quality and even "in stereo", had been lent to a student by Schumann himself, and went lost in a fire that destroyed the student's house (again, a fire!): I wonder if such a thing really happened.
I started asking for this musical masterpiece assuming the US Criterion issue as a point of arrival, a "non-plus-ultra" and a perfect opera omnia on disc about the great movie, never supposing the existence of an ME track, moreover coming by an European edition.
So, at the beginning my only hopes were pinned only on some existing acetates, as in part confirmed by Bruce, but now I'm going to convince myself that something more can happen.
In the meantime, thinking that rights and licensing work like a wall against an official release of the complete music, in good or in dubious quality, I think this British release can be seen, by now, as a first milestone and a good opportunity to regain confidence.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 3:00 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

Apart from complications for a CD release, it's really astonishing to learn that a Music-Effects track is on the UK Arrow BD, and this real unexpected surprise enables all of us to listen, at last, to that long-awaited score in a clearer way than ever before!
Having promptly ordered a copy, I remain anxious, and deeply indebted with "films1" who gave this basic news.
Rumours reported that the one-and-only personal copy of the original recording, in "perfect" quality and even "in stereo", had been lent to a student by Schumann himself, and went lost in a fire that destroyed the student's house (again, a fire!): I wonder if such a thing really happened.
I started asking for this musical masterpiece assuming the US Criterion issue as a point of arrival, a "non-plus-ultra" and a perfect opera omnia on disc about the great movie, never supposing the existence of an ME track, moreover coming by an European edition.
So, at the beginning my only hopes were pinned only on some existing acetates, as in part confirmed by Bruce, but now I'm going to convince myself that something more can happen.
In the meantime, thinking that rights and licensing work like a wall against an official release of the complete music, in good or in dubious quality, I think this British release can be seen, by now, as a first milestone and a good opportunity to regain confidence.


Here's hoping that some label will come along with enough moxie and cash to make a CD release possible.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 4:08 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Another company, Masters of Cinema (UK), occasionally includes music/effects track on their bluray titles, so it's always worth checking their upcoming releases. Their website gives detailed info. Another of theirs worth noting is "Double Indemnity."

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 4:55 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Arrow UK occasionally includes music/effects track on their bluray titles, so it's always worth checking their upcoming releases. Their website gives detailed info. Another of theirs worth noting is "Double Indemnity."



Will the U.K. Bluray disc of Night of the Hunter play on a USA Bluray player?

I would be very happy to have a CD of the M&E tracks. Bruce, would this be possible?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2014 - 6:17 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Will the U.K. Bluray disc of Night of the Hunter play on a USA Bluray player?
I would be very happy to have a CD of the M&E tracks. Bruce, would this be possible?


Online info isnt always accurate, but it seems to be Region 2, so you would need a special multiregion blu-ray player. However, it can probably be played in a computer with a bluray drive. If you just want the mfx, chances are someone will rip it and upload it online (especially since a cd probably wont happen). Bruce mentioned a few reasons why it's an unlikely candidate for CD, at least in conjunction with the LP tracks.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 1, 2014 - 3:51 AM   
 By:   siriami   (Member)

Arrow UK occasionally includes music/effects track on their bluray titles, so it's always worth checking their upcoming releases. Their website gives detailed info. Another of theirs worth noting is "Double Indemnity."

Just a point - it's Eureka/Masters of Cinema who have issued "Double Indemnity" on Blu in the UK - and yes, it does have a M & E isolated track on it.
Alistair

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 1, 2014 - 6:58 AM   
 By:   Eric A.   (Member)

Apart from complications for a CD release, it's really astonishing to learn that a Music-Effects track is on the UK Arrow BD, and this real unexpected surprise enables all of us to listen, at last, to that long-awaited score in a clearer way than ever before!
Having promptly ordered a copy, I remain anxious, and deeply indebted with "films1" who gave this basic news.
Rumours reported that the one-and-only personal copy of the original recording, in "perfect" quality and even "in stereo", had been lent to a student by Schumann himself, and went lost in a fire that destroyed the student's house (again, a fire!): I wonder if such a thing really happened.
I started asking for this musical masterpiece assuming the US Criterion issue as a point of arrival, a "non-plus-ultra" and a perfect opera omnia on disc about the great movie, never supposing the existence of an ME track, moreover coming by an European edition.
So, at the beginning my only hopes were pinned only on some existing acetates, as in part confirmed by Bruce, but now I'm going to convince myself that something more can happen.
In the meantime, thinking that rights and licensing work like a wall against an official release of the complete music, in good or in dubious quality, I think this British release can be seen, by now, as a first milestone and a good opportunity to regain confidence.


Prepare yourself to be disappointed (as I was): the M&E track on the Arrow Blu-ray seems to have been put together using the fully mixed composite track, meaning that for the most part the dialogue-free sections of the track are looped to cover the English dialogue. Strangely, some scenes feature continuous isolated music but they are few and most of the highlights of the score are spoiled by heavy editing. This means that the existing M&E track would not be a suitable source for a release of the score on CD.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 1, 2014 - 7:16 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Just a point - it's Eureka/Masters of Cinema who have issued "Double Indemnity"
thanks! Post corrected. I was conflating the two companies. MOC includes MFX on more discs than other companies (aside from TT).
http://www.eurekavideo.co.uk/moc/catalogue/

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 1, 2014 - 7:33 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Prepare yourself to be disappointed (as I was): the M&E track on the Arrow Blu-ray seems to have been put together using the fully mixed composite track, meaning that for the most part the dialogue-free sections of the track are looped to cover the English dialogue. Strangely, some scenes feature continuous isolated music but they are few and most of the highlights of the score are spoiled by heavy editing. This means that the existing M&E track would not be a suitable source for a release of the score on CD.

I haven't heard this MFX yet, but I thought MFX were used for foreign language dubbing? And different music added if a section was lost or possibly had dialog in the MFX? Noticed this in THE MANSTER laserdisc MFX, and DOUBLE INDEMNITY MFX where two short scenes have different music in the MFX track. The Spanish language track (on a USA dvd) uses this substituted music (otherwise the music sounds good whereas the MFX only fair).

 
 Posted:   Feb 1, 2014 - 7:43 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Believe me, if it were possible we would have done it. I have access to some acetates that could be cleaned up - well, we think they could, but they're not complete - but I also know the gentleman who restored the film and we could probably clean up the M&E to get some of the missing stuff.

But it's a moot point because the licensing is too convoluted - you have to deal with Sony on the LP and then the studio on the actual tracks and it would never sell enough to justify the costs.


It might be interesting to see if folks who are interested in this release would actually assist in funding it. I've recently "invested" in two projects on a website called Kickstarter, both of which required a certain minimum cash outlay to get off the ground. One was a project to fund a DVD release of a documentary about The Wrecking Crew (legendary studio back-up musicians who played on literally hundreds of hit records, from Phil Spector well into the 70s), and the other was a "build a bike" card game for bicycling enthusiasts (my older son is an avid mountain biker and I think he'll enjoy the game). One can contribute at various levels, against a promise of receiving different numbers/qualities of the product if/when funded. (Both projects were funded and then some, by the way.) Had they not reached the dollar figure needed within the designated time span, the projects would not have been considered as "funded" and my "investment" would never have been deducted from my checking account. As it is, I'll receive a copy of the card game in April, and the Wrecking Crew DVD in June. And the world will be a better place! My "investments" were $20 on the cards and $30 on the Wrecking Crew DVD.

The Wrecking Crew DVD project, incidentally, faced a problem very similar to what a release of NIGHT OF THE HUNTER would face, as Bruce describes it. The major part of the cost was licensing the many songs that would have to be included to illustrate the work of the Crew, so something like $250,000 was required just to do a minimally good job of it. They raised considerably more through Kickstarter and thus my DVD will have even more songs that originally anticipated.

So with NIGHT OF THE HUNTER, a minimum investment of $20 might entitle one to a copy of the CD release when the project is funded, while an investment of, say, $50 might entitle one to a copy of the CD plus a copy of PNJ's fabulous book about the making of the film (I'm sure you guys could work out a deal on that, right?)... Just a fr'instance, but see what I mean? Just a thought...

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 5, 2014 - 10:17 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Prepare yourself to be disappointed (as I was): the M&E track on the Arrow Blu-ray seems to have been put together using the fully mixed composite track, meaning that for the most part the dialogue-free sections of the track are looped to cover the English dialogue. Strangely, some scenes feature continuous isolated music but they are few and most of the highlights of the score are spoiled by heavy editing. This means that the existing M&E track would not be a suitable source for a release of the score on CD.

Have to disagree, this is the MFX track, not movie audio. You're referring to two scenes where a minute of audio is re-used from another scene: in the bedtime story scene, and steamboat scene, a minute from Willa's murder is subbed in. Possibly there was dialog looped into the MFX, as is sometimes required when the original dialog isn't right. So if the MFX was going to be used for foreign language dubbing, those spots with English dialog would need to be replaced.
Whatever the reason, I've seen recycling like this in other MFX tracks. Other than that, the correct music is used in the majority of the MFX track (I noticed a momentary discrepancy in the chase on the river scene). Unfortunately the overall sound quality is poor.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2015 - 7:42 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Since (long since, in fact) this last post, I've had my own chance to listen to the isolated track from the video disc, thanks to a kind friend who downloaded it online and then sent me a copy. I haven't listened to it much since that first hearing, except in parts, because the overall was so disappointing. There were several spots throughout where, as indicated above, the tracks were all chopped up and run through a mix master, so it was not a true representation of the score in many instances, and in fact was often to my ears a bit of a mess. (Personally, if it HAD been the true, full score, I wouldn't have minded so much the sound effects, as they happen to be fairly minimal in this particular score. The one track where the extra sounds would have been most problematic is in the lynch mob voices and effects.) Alas, if only Criterion had isolated ITS track -- from the original, English language release, of course -- then it would have been a completely different, and much more satisfying, story.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 18, 2017 - 7:25 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Am I missing something? Like about an upcoming Tadlow release?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 18, 2017 - 8:10 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

Not that soon. Probably not even next year . James has given us somewhat of a signal that he is willing to take this score on when the financial means is there.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 18, 2017 - 8:32 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Ah. Thank you. Wouldn't want to start one of them false rumors and end up facing a crowd wielding torches. eek

 
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