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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Land of the Pharaohs
 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 10:53 AM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

LOTP would be a natural for Nic Raine and the Tadlow crew to re-record. The City of Prague Philharmonic has the Tiomkin sound down pat, especially the trumpets. Their DUEL IN THE SUN is just about perfect, and you can feel by listening that the orchestra had a blast playing it. Here's hoping the KING OF KINGS masterpiece wasn't their last hurrah. I would certainly support a Kickstarter campaign to do this.

 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 11:11 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


That score is BONKERS!

I remember this era of WB score was a real maze to assemble. The recordings use a numerical slate system that is not tied to the movie. In other words, they don't say, "2m2 take 1." Rather they say "2291 take 1," because there was one rolling list of slate numbers for every WB movie that year. Pharaohs would be one set of numbers within that, and then the next movie picked up with the next number, and so on. Obviously there was some master log book of what movies and reel and part numbers the slates corresponded to, but who knows where that might be?

Sometimes the slates were written on the physical scores and/or music editing paperwork, which I was allowed to review—so it was like, aha!

But oftentimes it was not, in which case it had to be done by ear. And in the case of unused, partially used or revised cues, it was a lot of frustrating guesswork. Land of the Pharaohs had a ton of overlays and sweeteners, too.

A lot of people better than me have gotten good at it. At the time, I found it a huge challenge.

Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 11:42 AM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

So lucky to find a brand new sealed copy!!!

I decided I might as well buy this a couple of weeks ago, & s/h copies were around £20, which I thought was pretty good. I looked at one on eBay, but ended up buying a copy from Amazon (UK) Marketplace. So...it came, a totally different soundtrack! I complained & they said send it back & we'll reimburse, which I did, they obviously didn't have the right one. So...buy another one, Amazon & eBay had a few, & all of a sudden the price has shot up, I've no idea why, they're all around £50+ now. Oh well, no rush, I'll give it a month or two & look again.

I certainly agree that a re-recording by Nic Raine & The City of Prague Philharmonic & the Tadlow crew would be perfect. Their recordings of Fall Of The Roman Empire & The Alamo are brilliant.

I'm still hoping that Warner Archive gives up a great looking Blu-ray of Land Of The Pharaohs before they pack it in. The film is a lot of fun (Joan Collins blacked-up!), & you can hear Tiomkin's score in stereo.

 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Michal Turkowski   (Member)

This great score screams for new recording! And rerelease of OST will be also great...

 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 12:55 PM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

Happy to see Lukas reminiscing about this project as daunting it may seem to him even now, Iam reminded of the days when one could get lost listening to a new FSM release while reading the essays and liner notes. It's deja vu right now. Iam definitely having that moment now.

Also for others sake this should be back in print and a full new re-recording would be great if James Fitzpatrick reconsiders doing it one more time. Nic Raine knows his Tiomkin well.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 2:33 PM   
 By:   Laurent-Watteau   (Member)

I have almost all the Tadlow releases (just a few missing but not for long...). Those recordings are incredible. Is it really the same City Of Prague Orchestra that we had in the 90s ? (not that I didn't like their recordings back then, but IMHO, they largely improved!). I absolutely love all the CDs they've done so far. I even cried when I first heard "The Salamander" (maybe from Prometheus Records ? Tadlow ? Or both ? I'm not sure at the moment...) as if Jerry was rising from the grave (I even didn't know that this movie existed). That was at the same time a very pleasant and tough experience. Same emotion with the "Thriller" scores (I don't think the show was ever aired in France, but I may be wrong). Their BLUE MAX version is also perfect as far as I'm concerned (actually, I listen to it more than to the OST). To make it short : James, Nic, Leigh, The whole Prague Orchestra, all the wonderdul musicians involved in those recordings (Tadlow or Prometheus), you have done an incredible work. A big THANK YOU!

 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   dogplant   (Member)

I have almost all the Tadlow releases...

OMG, Laurent! How are you? Email me. I'd love to catch up.

(Edit: Not sure if this is the Laurent? https://youtu.be/yfOreBWLx3k)

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 12, 2021 - 5:23 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

LOTP would be a natural for Nic Raine and the Tadlow crew to re-record. The City of Prague Philharmonic has the Tiomkin sound down pat, especially the trumpets. Their DUEL IN THE SUN is just about perfect, and you can feel by listening that the orchestra had a blast playing it. Here's hoping the KING OF KINGS masterpiece wasn't their last hurrah. I would certainly support a Kickstarter campaign to do this.

I second this.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 13, 2021 - 3:18 PM   
 By:   George Flaxman   (Member)

I third this.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 13, 2021 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

I would support this also after THE NIGHT OF THE HUNTER. Mentioned a few years ago as something James Fitzpatrick would love to record. Yes, I certainly did love the Prometheus / Tadlow recording to DUEL IN THE SUN.

 
 Posted:   Jun 13, 2021 - 4:45 PM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

A new recording of LOTP would be a dream come true.

To me it almost sounds like a Russia opera on the level of Alexander Borodin.

James and the usual City of Prague Orchestra would of course be the natural pick but William Stromberg showed with his rendition of Dial M that is more than capable for the job.

I would imagine that it wouldn't be an inexpensive project. I suspect that Olivia Tiomkin may have taken some part in helping to finance Dial M but I don't know that.

I have money to chip in anytime.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   tiomkinfan   (Member)

I am up for contributing as well should such a project become a reality.

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 10:31 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Everyone knows I'm not big on Tiomkin but I find this score a lot of fun! I guess it's bonkers in just the right way for me, Lukas -- thanks for releasing it.

In terms of re-recordings though, would Tiomkin fans not prefer to get some other score of his which is otherwise completely lost? There are so many -- or how about something even older that would more greatly benefit from the modern recording, like Lost Horizon from 1937? Or is a revisit to this one really the highest priority for you, given that there will probably be very few film music re-recordings to come?

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   TacktheCobbler   (Member)

Everyone knows I'm not big on Tiomkin but I find this score a lot of fun! I guess it's bonkers in just the right way for me, Lukas -- thanks for releasing it.

In terms of re-recordings though, would Tiomkin fans not prefer to get some other score of his which is otherwise completely lost? There are so many -- or how about something even older that would more greatly benefit from the modern recording, like Lost Horizon from 1937? Or is a revisit to this one really the highest priority for you, given that there will probably be very few film music re-recordings to come?

Yavar


Personally, I feel that epics like this and Fall of the Roman Empire (and to a lesser extent, Lost Horizon) benefit the most from the bombast one can expect from Tiomkin compared to other films he scored (I personally am not a fan of his Hitchcock scores).

That said, I agree that there are scores, Tiomkin or otherwise, that are in more need of a re-recording, whether they be lost or simply survive in poor quality.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

A new recording of LOTP would be a dream come true.
James and the usual City of Prague Orchestra would of course be the natural pick but William Stromberg showed with his rendition of Dial M that is more than capable for the job.
I would imagine that it wouldn't be an inexpensive project.


Just four years ago James Fitzpatrick made a break down of costs for such an imaginary LOTP recording on this board and it would of course be much too expensive and entail a huge loss of money. Who in all the world is willing to pay $86.000 for such a recording?

"A rough break down of costs

Reconstruction of New Score & Parts: $15,000 to $20,000

Recording Sessions: $50,000 for 6 sessions with 90 player plus studio , conductor, engineer

Editing, Mixing, Mastering $3000

Sub Total so far: $73,000

This does not include Tadlow Music Production Fee. Usually about $3000

Manufacturing of 3000 CD s and Booklet...if a double CD then about
$6000
incl booklet etc...

Mechanical Copyright Payments on 3000 CDs
$4500

ROUGH TOTAL: $86,500

Projected income based on 3000 sales over 3 years, based on 25% direct MO sales, 45% sales to specialist soundtrack distributors, 30% sales to regular retailers like HMV, Amazon etc...

$35,000

Projected loss $51,500.00

This does not include downloads and streaming...which at the moment is minuscule for specialist film music

So, now can you see why these things are a "Labour of Love" ?"
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=1&threadID=120177&archive=0

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 1:26 PM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

It’s unfortunate that only a mono copy of LOTP still exists. My understanding is that it was actually recorded in stereo but WB reused the tapes to save money back then. However, I’m so glad that Lucas took the time to mix in all the vocal parts correctly and all in all did a masterful job. As far as I’m concerned a new recording is unnecessary. What we have is better than adequate, it’s great. Thanks Lucas.

Does anyone know why a similar release of “The Old Man and the Sea” was never released? I recall that a label like Kritzerland made a complete remaster but was unable to secure licensing. The old Columbia album just doesn’t come close to epic quality of what was in the film.

As I get older there is just so little film music that I care to comment on. That’s not to say that current film music isn’t equally great, it’s just that the music has moved on but I haven’t. This I care about.

Golden Age Forever!

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 1:32 PM   
 By:   TacktheCobbler   (Member)

Does anyone know why a similar release of “The Old Man and the Sea” was never released? I recall that a label like Kritzerland made a complete remaster but was unable to secure licensing. The old Columbia album just doesn’t come close to epic quality of what was in the film.

LLL tried to do a Deluxe release of this years ago with both film and album recordings, but some sort of legal issues forced them to cancel it. Two years ago, when asked about it in the All News LLL thread, MV basically said that a release of this was never going to happen.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 1:32 PM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

A new recording of LOTP would be a dream come true.
James and the usual City of Prague Orchestra would of course be the natural pick but William Stromberg showed with his rendition of Dial M that is more than capable for the job.
I would imagine that it wouldn't be an inexpensive project.


Just four years ago James Fitzpatrick made a break down of costs for such an imaginary LOTP recording on this board and it would of course be much too expensive and entail a huge loss of money. Who in all the world is willing to pay $86.000 for such a recording?

"A rough break down of costs

Reconstruction of New Score & Parts: $15,000 to $20,000

Recording Sessions: $50,000 for 6 sessions with 90 player plus studio , conductor, engineer

Editing, Mixing, Mastering $3000

Sub Total so far: $73,000

This does not include Tadlow Music Production Fee. Usually about $3000

Manufacturing of 3000 CD s and Booklet...if a double CD then about
$6000
incl booklet etc...

Mechanical Copyright Payments on 3000 CDs
$4500

ROUGH TOTAL: $86,500

Projected income based on 3000 sales over 3 years, based on 25% direct MO sales, 45% sales to specialist soundtrack distributors, 30% sales to regular retailers like HMV, Amazon etc...

$35,000

Projected loss $51,500.00

This does not include downloads and streaming...which at the moment is minuscule for specialist film music

So, now can you see why these things are a "Labour of Love" ?"
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=1&threadID=120177&archive=0


I think the difference today may be the Kickstarter effect.

 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

It’s unfortunate that only a mono copy of LOTP still exists. My understanding is that it was actually recorded in stereo but WB reused the tapes to save money back then. However, I’m so glad that Lucas took the time to mix in all the vocal parts correctly and all in all did a masterful job. As far as I’m concerned a new recording is unnecessary. What we have is better than adequate, it’s great. Thanks Lucas.

Does anyone know why a similar release of “The Old Man and the Sea” was never released? I recall that a label like Kritzerland made a complete remaster but was unable to secure licensing. The old Columbia album just doesn’t come close to epic quality of what was in the film.

As I get older there is just so little film music that I care to comment on. That’s not to say that current film music isn’t equally great, it’s just that the music has moved on but I haven’t. This I care about.

Golden Age Forever!


Great post. You could probably find some current film music to fit your tastes but I understand it's harder and harder to find. Taro Iwashiro's Fukushima 50 from last year is one that might click with you. Old style melodies are more often found outside Hollywood blockbusters these days.

I share your sadness that La-La Land records wasn't able to make their planned release of The Old Man and the Sea a reality. That's another Tiomkin release I would have purchased, as it's a rather unusual and more restrained/subtle score from him, to me.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 14, 2021 - 2:00 PM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)


I think the difference today may be the Kickstarter effect.


However, I don´t think that enough people would contribute to such a Kickstarter campaign to get together the needed amount of money - which in this case would be much, much more than what was necessary for Intrada´s DIAL M FOR MURDER.
The difference would probably also be that unfortunately nowadays you won´t even sell 3000 copies of such a title anymore (the break down of costs and income above was still based on such a sales number) which is one of the reasons why James Fitztpatrick has more and more lost his interest in doing such expensive re-recordings - with the exception of BEN HUR and KING OF KINGS which he wanted to do by all means to bring the Tadlow recordings of the Rozsa epics full circle.

 
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