I've seen this film once, all I remember about it well was it starred Wesley Snipes in a conspiracy plot and the story having a needless twist concerning agent RDJ which made no sense.
I can't remember Goldsmith's music at all, and I'm reluctant to watch the film again just to get familiar with it. I personally won't seek out a score that I do not know well, or at all, when I can't match it to visuals, and story and the context of the film it was written for first.
I've seen this film once, all I remember about it well was it starred Wesley Snipes in a conspiracy plot and the story having a needless twist concerning agent RDJ which made no sense.
I can't remember Goldsmith's music at all, and I'm reluctant to watch the film again just to get familiar with it. I personally won't seek out a score that I do not know well, or at all, when I can't match it to visuals, and story and the context of the film it was written for first.
Is this score good enough (in your opinion at least) where I would want to watch the film again just to hear it in context? Therefore wanting to break it down for myself as a standalone listen. That's what I'm getting at.
Is this score good enough (in your opinion at least) where I would want to watch the film again just to hear it in context? Therefore wanting to break it down for myself as a standalone listen. That's what I'm getting at.
How deep is your Goldsmith lunacy? Casual, intermediate or incurable?
I just rewatched this a month ago, I'm in category 3 above, and it was depressing how lacking the current short album is. I'm glad anything exists at all, yes yes, but sometimes the AFM really killed us on these things back then. It's not the worst JG film, but it ain't Patton. Hearing the score in context of the film...good luck, this was the nineties when SOUND EFX WERE THIS BIG!!!!!!! LOTS of automatic gunfire, planes etc to contend with...
How deep is your Goldsmith lunacy? Casual, intermediate or incurable?
Intermediate I guess? There's loads of his work I haven't listened to through choice, especially the large handful of films he scored that I have no interest in seeing.
Hearing the score in context of the film...good luck, this was the nineties when SOUND EFX WERE THIS BIG!!!!!!! LOTS of automatic gunfire, planes etc to contend with...
Goldsmith is my top fav composer for the scores I know him for and love.
As for the sound effects? I hear you because I'm always complaining about that nowadays, but to be honest in the 90s it should be okay. I got through Executive Decision recently and the 93' Fugitive that James Newton Howard composed just fine and could come to the conclusion easily as to whether I would want to listen to those scores away from the film, which I did. I rather enjoy both.
How deep is your Goldsmith lunacy? Casual, intermediate or incurable?
Intermediate I guess? There's loads of his work I haven't listened to through choice, especially the large handful of films he scored that I have no interest in seeing.
Hearing the score in context of the film...good luck, this was the nineties when SOUND EFX WERE THIS BIG!!!!!!! LOTS of automatic gunfire, planes etc to contend with...
Goldsmith is my fav composer for the scores I know him for and love.
As for the sound effects? I hear you because I'm always complaining about that nowadays, but to be honest in the 90s it should be okay. I got through Executive Decision recently and the 93' Fugitive that James Newton Howard composed just fine and could come to the conclusion easily as to whether I would want to listen to those scores away from the film, which I did. I rather enjoy both.
In that case, go forth & enjoy! He really lost the mix in a few cues on this film & you may groan the lengthy and somewhat stagnant 'Swamp Search ' made the album in lieu of a suite of strung together action cues, or, most importantly the last two acts of the film (the cemetery cues....sigh....The Front Gate, I'm grateful that at least made it).
It will make you groan, album issues aside, that this level of care is not put into action films today. Yes, the big drums are here and even some Zimmer-y gestures in the string writing, but....you'll hear what I mean. No one took a short motif further than JG. -Sean
Is this score good enough (in your opinion at least) where I would want to watch the film again just to hear it in context? Therefore wanting to break it down for myself as a standalone listen. That's what I'm getting at.
It's a conundrum, that's for sure. The score ALONE isn't worth suffering through another viewing of the film, but if you happen upon the film one day and the remote is elsewhere, the score makes the wretched movie watchable. "Following Chen" in particular is much more interesting while watching the visuals.
I guess I agree with Shaun in that it just made me mad, watching the film, knowing I'll probably be in a retirement home IF a deluxe download (by then) happens, and have to rewatch the overlong and awkward film to hear it all.
Didja know a key scene in the end with Downey Jr. took a few extra days to get in the can because he hated this project and just didn't show up? Gives you an idea of what your up against....
In that case, go forth & enjoy! He really lost the mix in a few cues on this film & you may groan the lengthy and somewhat stagnant 'Swamp Search ' made the album in lieu of a suite of strung together action cues, or, most importantly the last two acts of the film (the cemetery cues....sigh....The Front Gate, I'm grateful that at least made it).
It will make you groan, album issues aside, that this level of care is not put into action films today. Yes, the big drums are here and even some Zimmer-y gestures in the string writing, but....you'll hear what I mean. No one took a short motif further than JG. -Sean
That right there is why he's great for me. I'm a huge fan of repetitive EDM that focuses on repeated rhythms and basslines.
JG was somehow able to do this but in a symphonic, more complex sense whilst keeping the structure there that I like. I love the way he would take a motif and just repeat it, whilst building on it, and never losing where he started.
This is why I cannot stand the large majority of action music today, because even the good composers seem to latch onto a good motif? Then they drop it almost immediately never to be heard again, it drives me insane!
If I were to single out a composer today who is good at writing music around established motifs where I'm familiar with their work? It would have to be Bear McCreary.
It's a conundrum, that's for sure. The score ALONE isn't worth suffering through another viewing of the film, but if you happen upon the film one day and the remote is elsewhere, the score makes the wretched movie watchable. "Following Chen" in particular is much more interesting while watching the visuals.
I think I'll give it another look, when I don't know, probably when it's on Netflix again but I'll keep it in mind.
Stumbled on this thread/community while Googling to see if there existed an extended soundtrack for U.S. Marshals, and was very happy to see that in 2018 people are still talking about JG and this score!
That right there is why he's great for me. I'm a huge fan of repetitive EDM that focuses on repeated rhythms and basslines.
JG was somehow able to do this but in a symphonic, more complex sense whilst keeping the structure there that I like. I love the way he would take a motif and just repeat it, whilst building on it, and never losing where he started.
This is why I cannot stand the large majority of action music today, because even the good composers seem to latch onto a good motif? Then they drop it almost immediately never to be heard again, it drives me insane!
I couldn't agree more with this. I was trying to explain to a friend why other "classical" composer's action music isn't as satisfying for me, and it just boils down to the fact that JG knew how to catch all the sync points in the film AND keep a consistent pulse through a whole cue. It annoys me to no end when action music is constantly changing ideas and tempo - it's as if the composer just connected a bunch of separate pieces and never bothered to work out how to convey the whole scene with a unified vision.
If I were to single out a composer today who is good at writing music around established motifs where I'm familiar with their work? It would have to be Bear McCreary.
Bear McCreary is amazing! I got into his music during Battlestar Galactica and was subsequently hooked on Caprica and Terminator: SCC. I've also been very impressed with how much attention Henry Jackman pays to motivic consistency in his scores, Winter Soldier probably being my favorite.
Stumbled on this thread/community while Googling to see if there existed an extended soundtrack for U.S. Marshals, and was very happy to see that in 2018 people are still talking about JG and this score!
Welcome to the forum! As a Goldsmith nut I just adore the handle/forum name you chose!
Indeed we are still talking about almost all of Goldsmith's scores here, as a majority of us are Goldsmith-lovers. In addition to this one, DeputyRiley did a number of other Complete Score Breakdowns for modern Goldsmith, and inspired by his example, I started doing the same for other Goldsmith scores (mainly pre-90s since he hadn't covered them). Here's one that I did that since got a complete commercial release (Damnation Alley) -- scroll to the bottom for a complete list of all the breakdowns I've done: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117082&forumID=1&archive=0
DeputyRiley has since had two Goldsmiths he covered turned into official expanded releases (Gremlins 2 and The Haunting, both owned in perpetuity by Varese Sarabande), so don't give up hope! Here's also a thread I started laying out what Goldsmith is left to release or expand -- if it doesn't show up on this list, most likely there is a definitive complete version of it out there (also, I think later in the thread I put links to all of DeputyRiley's complete breakdowns): http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=90657&forumID=1&archive=0
Also, for talking about Jerry Goldsmith scores, check out this new podcast that I and a couple friends started, in which we plan to go through virtually his entire output in chronological order (we have two episodes up and two more recorded): http://goldsmithodyssey.com
I couldn't agree more with this. I was trying to explain to a friend why other "classical" composer's action music isn't as satisfying for me, and it just boils down to the fact that JG knew how to catch all the sync points in the film AND keep a consistent pulse through a whole cue. It annoys me to no end when action music is constantly changing ideas and tempo - it's as if the composer just connected a bunch of separate pieces and never bothered to work out how to convey the whole scene with a unified vision.
Wonderfully put description of why Jerry's action music is a cut above the rest!
Bear McCreary is amazing! I got into his music during Battlestar Galactica and was subsequently hooked on Caprica and Terminator: SCC.
Right there with you guys -- my favorite McCrearys are Human Target Season 1 (great thematic orchestral action) and currently, Outlander. You've got to like bagpipes for the latter but if you do it's just incredible, probably the best music he's done yet. Here's a bit of fun:
Thanks so much for the warm welcome Yavar! The complete score breakdowns look like an amazing resource, and I'll definitely pore through them. Looks like there's still so much great music to unearth!
I just listened to the Black Patch episode of your podcast and I freaking love it! It's always been one of my goals to listen through Jerry's canon, but I seem to never get around to it. It's hard to find an entry point into a soundtrack when the recording quality is what it is and you don't know much about the film, so I really appreciate how the episode teases highlights and also provides some context around the score/story. I'll now be listening to Black Patch on the subways this week! Please keep it up!
Also, I love the ponytail in the logo, and the Goldsmith Ratio is genius. =)
Thanks so much for the warm welcome Yavar! The complete score breakdowns look like an amazing resource, and I'll definitely pore through them. Looks like there's still so much great music to unearth!
I just listened to the Black Patch episode of your podcast and I freaking love it! It's always been one of my goals to listen through Jerry's canon, but I seem to never get around to it. It's hard to find an entry point into a soundtrack when the recording quality is what it is and you don't know much about the film, so I really appreciate how the episode teases highlights and also provides some context around the score/story. I'll now be listening to Black Patch on the subways this week! Please keep it up!
Also, I love the ponytail in the logo, and the Goldsmith Ratio is genius. =)
I can't believe I missed this and never replied to you! (I hope you're still visiting the board and can see I am doing so now...) Thanks so much for writing such nice comments. I hope you've continued to enjoy the Goldsmith Odyssey podcasts even as our episode lengths have gotten perhaps a bit longer since Black Patch.
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I actually came to this thread to bump it with Jerry's official cue titles for the complete score, as recently revealed by the Academy themselves on their website of written score library holdings: http://collections.new.oscars.org/Details/Archive/71303060
1-2 "The Set-Down," 2 pages 1-2a "The Set-Down (alternate)," 1 page 1-5 "Nuggets and Bullets," 3 pages 2-2 "Prison Plane," 3 pages (they also list 2-2a "Prison Plane," 3 pages [photocopy]) 3-1 "Broken Glasses," 1 page 3-2 "Zip Gun," 2 pages 3-3 "Almost Down," 2 pages 4-1 "Sinking Plane," 8 pages 4-2 "Consider Him Dangerous," 1 page 5-1 "At Knife Point," 1 page 5-2 "The Pen," 2 pages 5-3/6-1 "Heading for the Swamp," 3 pages 6-2 "Swamp Search," 11 pages 7-1 "Listen to Me," 2 pages 7-2 "The Humidor," 1 page 7-3/8-1 "Take It All (revised)," 2 pages 8-2/9-1 "Gym of the Living Dead," 2 pages 9-2 "Dead in the Shower," 2 pages 9-3 "Coffee Shop," 2 pages 9-3a "Video Surveillance," 1 page 9-4 "Video Evidence," 1 page 9-5/10-1 "Eyes on the City," 4 pages (also listed: 9-5/10-1a "Eyes on the City," 4 pages [photocopy]) 10-2 "Got You," 1 page 11-1 "Airport Locker," 4 pages 11-4 "The Consulate," 2 pages 11-5 "Following Chen," 8 pages 12-1 "Still Following Chen," 5 pages 12-2 "Cemetery Watch," 3 pages 12-3 "Across the Cemetery," 3 pages 13-1 "Funeral Ambush," 5 pages 13-2 "The Front Gate," 7 pages [photocopy] 13-3 "Up the Stairs," 5 pages 13-4a "Turn Around," 1 page 13-4/14-1 "Mark and Royce Fight," 6 pages 14-2 "We Lost Him," 3 pages 14-3 "The Wrapper," 1 page 15-1 "The Great Sam," 1 page 15-2 "Ship Fight," 5 pages 15-3 "Mark's Wounded," 1 page 15-4 "The Glock," 1 page 16-1 "Trying to Escape," 2 pages 16-2 "Free to Go, "4 pages
He mentions it near the end of the interview, alongside his work on The Swarm for LLL which is presumably also imminent.
This was the Varese-controlled Goldsmith score with the most music still missing, so it makes sense to tackle next. I look forward to reassessing it in complete form!
Interestingly, it won third place in the "What Goldsmith do you want next from Varese?" poll I conducted a few years ago on this board. First place winner in that poll was Small Soldiers with 29 votes -- we got a definitive version of that last year, thanks to Varese. Second place winner in the poll was Air Force One with 23 votes, and Varese just released their Deluxe Edition of that. Third place winner was U.S. Marshals with 19 votes, and it looks like that is next! It seems Varese has a pretty good idea of which score expansions are in the highest demand, and maybe they even saw that thread on the board.
For those who are wondering, The 13th Warrior was in 4th with 15 votes and The Other was in 5th with 14 votes. I'll be interested to see if those are expanded next after USM. (Other scores in that round of poll received less than 10 votes each.)
