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Posted: |
Nov 4, 2018 - 4:02 PM
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By: |
leagolfer
(Member)
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Of course, still it doesn't matter what peoples opinions are, Drac is unique he's not classed as sociable in history only for blood, ok its social drama.
That it's a Dracula film is really irrelevant. You have to ask HOW the Dracula story is staged. Badham's version is very much a dark, gothic romance, and not really a traditional horror film. You should know that if you've seen it. It's relatively free of 'scary' sequences, instead using the general gothic look and setting as a backdrop. Much like Coppola did 13 years later with his version (although that is considerably darker, of course).
If 'horror' is to be understood as having a scary element, you'll find more overt examples in other Williams-scored films like IMAGES, WAR OF THE WORLDS or CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (even if none of them can be classified as horror movies as such).
The fact is that Williams has never really scored a typical horror film in his entire career. Only 'horror' elements within other types of film.
Thor, how many more times before you learn what Dracula is, i know some music to other movie/scores had horror oriented style - Drac is one formula only be it alittle romantic & charm but more wicked. Whatever Drac is love or anger or spoof he's 100% horror.
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Kind of going back to Zardoz's post from earlier, I too remember reading that Williams had apparently not seen any Dracula films before he scored the Badham version. It does seem rather strange to me that he would have been able to avoid them. He would have been in his early teens just as the original Universal cycle was coming to an end. Then he would have seen - if it had interested him - the TV screenings of the old classics on TV in the mid-'50s (I think). Thereafter we had the huge resurgence of Frankenstein and Dracula with Hammer's outstanding initial contributions. Could JW have consciously avoided them? He was already working in TV by then, so he knew how studios worked, but is it possible that he disliked the "horror" genre so much that he shut himself off from it all? What kind of films did he take his girlfriends to see?
I'm beginning to imagine - possibly - that what really happened is that Williams deliberately avoided watching earlier Dracula films once he got the Badham assignment, just so as not to let them colour his own approach. Doesn't say he'd never seen an earlier Drac when he was fourteen years old. You tell me.
Then there's the story of how how he was offered THE SENTINEL, but turned it down after fainting. I don't believe that story at all. Maybe he just didn't like "horror". But even so, how could he have avoided vampires on the telly all his life? Maybe he wasn't a "film fan" after all...
You tell me - I'm going to bed.
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Posted: |
Nov 4, 2018 - 5:56 PM
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By: |
leagolfer
(Member)
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JW style starting out was easy jazz, light orchestra, big band, opposite to horror, start the 60s still keeping it light orchestra jazzy, still no signal for horror, bigger projects earned big orchestra CM, RIM, BP, etc, this was a pivotal mo in JW career he decided to go light hearted with music into big lucrative tv shows, higher society/fame meant more £ rubbing shoulders, that point JW had little too no interest in horror.
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What about Lost in Space? Some of those episodes could be considered Horror....BLE! 
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No disrespect meant Graham, but unlike current composers who probably can't do more then operate a Mac, JW surely spent what could have been misspent time watching TV, learning his art & practicing piano. I could see how he used his time more wisely, and if there was a chance to watch a film it was probably something significant.
In the end, whadda we know though....
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No disrespect meant Graham, but unlike current composers who probably can't do more then operate a Mac, JW surely spent what could have been misspent time watching TV, learning his art & practicing piano. I could see how he used his time more wisely, and if there was a chance to watch a film it was probably something significant.
In the end, whadda we know though....
A most EXCELLENT point! I didn't even think of that!
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Posted: |
Nov 4, 2018 - 8:28 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Williams has input on and signs off on these releases.
He has also kiboshed releases of some scores of his that he doesn't want issued for whatever reason.
Dear Mr. Shiffy M!
You are one of the living legends on this board.
Nevertheless: Where do you have this information from?
Many thanks, El Aurence, though I fear my legend status derives from me spending way too much time on these film music boards.
Anyway, over the years, various label reps have noted that Williams would not allow "The Sugarland Express" (which does exist, in mono) to be released. More recently, it was revealed that he felt the same way about "Story of a Woman," which was also planned by one of the labels. I've even more recently read that he did the same about "The Rare Breed," but I have not seen that from a label rep (meaning a trusted source), though it's possible I missed it (thus jeopardizing my legend status).
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No problem.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Nov 5, 2018 - 2:58 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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If a comedy is made, it's still a comedy even if someone doesn't think it's funny.
Dracula is a horror film. It doesn't matter if someone isn't horrified – it's still labelled as a horror film.
Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein (with Dracula in it) is described as a horror comedy. If someone is neither frightened nor amused by it, it's still a horror comedy.
No-one over six years old is frightened by the old Universal Werewolf, Frankenstein and Dracula films, but they are still horror movies.
Williams' music was for a horror film. Whether it was gothic horror or horror comedy or horror musical or whatever, it's still a horror movie.
I beg to differ. People seem to confuse source material with film adaptation here. Do you guys also consider DRACULA: DEAD AND LOVING IT or BLACULA horror movies? Or is it just a matter of adapting the source material into something of it own?
Badham's film takes Bram Stoker's source material and spices up the love story, making it a gothic romance. There are definitely horror tropes in it (production design, cinematography, acting), but almost always shoved in the background. So at most, I'd say it's a horror/romance hybrid.
The discussion came about because leagolfer said DRACULA is Williams' only horror, which IMO doesn't quite cover it. First of all, because it's not a straight-up horror film, second because Williams has explored far more typical horror elements in other movies.
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Gotta agree with what Basil W says above.
Imbuing the film with an emphasis on the 'gothic romance' aspect, doesn't make it any less of a horror film.
Yes, if it's LOVE AT FIRST BITE, it becomes a comedy/horror film, but this one just juiced-up the romantic aspect of the novel. The horrific aspects of the original source are all present and correct.
It was touted as a horror film on it's release. Just like THE FURY, which is also a horror film to me. It's about telekinetic powers unleashed, just like CARRIE. Is CARRIE not a horror film?
I don't know why some people are saying 'Williams has never scored a horror film'. Do they think it would be somehow below him to do it? That's rubbish. Horror films are just as valid as any other genre.
IMAGES, on the other hand, is a psychological drama to me, but has a score that is probably more terrifying than any of the horror scores he wrote.
I'm not sure what I would classify JAWS 1 & 2 as. I don't see them as out and out horror films, more adventure/suspense thrillers. Like the JURASSIC PARKS.
But I suppose everyone comes at things differently.
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"I tend to use Noël Carroll's definition"
-----------------------
Haha, I use mine 
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Well, DRACULA by John Badham is included in just about all movie encyclopedias about horror movies I have. Of course it belongs into the horror genre (purely by tradition already), and it does have "horror" elements (it certainly is just as "scary" as the old Universal or Hammer Dracula movies).
And of course it is ALSO a Gothic romance, a spooky love story with a vampire. I see not conflict of interest here. :-)
Generally, movies like ALIEN, for example, are thought of as science-fiction (and they show up in the appropriate encyclopedias), though they do contain horror elements (and ALIEN is probably scarier than most Dracula movies), but ALIEN is usually part of the "science-fiction" canon, and is less often seen as a "horror movie". Yet on the other hand, many horror books justifiably include THE GHOST AND MRS. MUIR, even though that movie is not "scary" at all (it may contain a few "spooky" elements, that's it), but "ghost stories" generally belong to the horror genre, and so it belongs there by tradition, and to show the scope ghost stories can have (from downright "fright pieces" to benign love stories).
That's just my two cents on sticking 'em into genres.
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