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 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

No one is ever forced to buy anything, but when endeavors like this are successful it could open the door to others. After all, it was the success of the 1997 Star Wars releases that led to Rhino's expanded Superman in the first place.

I didn't know that. We live in an age where it's just kind of assumed that anything of a certain age and popularity will just automatically get a complete and perfect release. Back then there was, what? The Star Wars Arista box and then the RCA sets, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and didn't Jaws get a little more music for the 20th?

Of course, Mike, I also hope that you are working on the Original Trilogy right now from the very best sources (including never before heard outtakes) and it's just tearing you up inside that you can't tell anybody! big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   TacktheCobbler   (Member)

No one is ever forced to buy anything, but when endeavors like this are successful it could open the door to others. After all, it was the success of the 1997 Star Wars releases that led to Rhino's expanded Superman in the first place.

I didn't know that. We live in an age where it's just kind of assumed that anything of a certain age and popularity will just automatically get a complete and perfect release. Back then there was, what? The Star Wars Arista box and then the RCA sets, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and didn't Jaws get a little more music for the 20th?

Of course, Mike, I also hope that you are working on the Original Trilogy right now from the very best sources (including never before heard outtakes) and it's just tearing you up inside that you can't tell anybody! big grin


It was actually the 25th Anniversary that Jaws received an expansion, but as we all know, the assembly was not what it could have been. Also, there had been an expanded E.T. during that period.

Like Justin, I've been holding off on buying any Star Wars soundtracks until definitive versions are released.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

If any label did this I might not ever buy from them ever again.

lol

But I seem to be the only one who feels this way.

Pretty likely.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 12:22 PM   
 By:   Marcato   (Member)

And if the OST is the same cues as the film score it calls for a new digital assembly big grin

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 1:28 PM   
 By:   Accidental Genius   (Member)

But I seem to be the only one who feels this way.

That is quite likely. I cannot imagine too many people having such a myopic view of film score preservation and expansion.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 1:42 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

I enjoy watching the trolls get owned,

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 5:26 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

Yeah Star Wars definitely needs a remaster, although I'd argue Empire and Jedi (ESPECIALLY Jedi) need it more.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 6:55 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)



Perhaps so. This is supposedly a community of people who care about classic film music being preserved and released and who support it as much as possible, isn't it? Your post seems to express the polar opposite of this.



I guess I should have stated what I thought was the obvious -- the issue is the completely redundant album included. I actually probably would have bought it (and the reissues of 2-3 and 4) if this wasn't the case, but I'll just keep the box instead.

I don't mean to demean your work, but it's EXTREMELY frustrating to keep seeing release after release that just adds absolutely pointless padding of the original album (especially in the case of for instance Batteries Not Included where the 'album' is 100% correlated to the film score program).

And the worst is in a case like Superman (or POTA or Roger Rabbit or whatever else) where it pads both the price and the space it takes up. But even in cases like the afformentioned Batteries or First Knight or Rocketeer or Return to Oz or Mummy or Beastmaster or whatever else where the disc count would be the same, sometimes the press release is written as if they just threw it in.
Sometimes I really wish I didn't get into film music because of releases like this.

As I said, I seem to be in the extreme minority (though I know I've seen others talk about it now and again) and yes I do understand that sometimes (though not always) it's 'include or or the release doesn't happen at all)', but I just continue to fail to understand the draw. Especially when there's plenty of releases that don't have them yet people don't seem to clamor for the album (like for instance Jurassic Park or Batman Returns).

In general, I just don't understand the fascination with the original album programs, in general. The music is what's important. I mean, I can't imagine a release that featured a second disc of a score never released before with "here's what it might have looked like were it released at the time of the film!" and being the same music would go over too well. So why does it matter that it was released?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 6:57 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I enjoy watching the trolls get owned,

Ah yes, I'm a troll because you disagree with me.

Sure. That makes sense.

 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 8:00 PM   
 By:   Saul Pincus   (Member)

As I said, I seem to be in the extreme minority (though I know I've seen others talk about it now and again) and yes I do understand that sometimes (though not always) it's 'include or or the release doesn't happen at all)', but I just continue to fail to understand the draw.

For me, the draw is obvious:

1) The ability to have access to a "listening experience" version of the score as the composer assembled it, and the nostalgia that accompanies this.
2) The ability to have access to a shorter, more compact version of the score for car CD playing (and yes, my 2018 Subaru Forester comes standard with a CD player in addition to USB and Bluetooth.)

Further to #1 above: is not the album version a product of the composer's mind and taste, as much as the music itself? All things being equal, in what world would we not recognize this when we also choose to recognize an alt version of an individual cue?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 8:26 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

You hit the nail on the head, Saul.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 9:41 PM   
 By:   kc-technerd   (Member)

Star Wars is the movie that made me fall in love with the orchestral motion picture soundtrack, so I'm all for this.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 9:44 PM   
 By:   kc-technerd   (Member)

Of course, Mike, I also hope that you are working on the Original Trilogy right now from the very best sources (including never before heard outtakes) and it's just tearing you up inside that you can't tell anybody! big grin

Me too. The 40th anniversary has come and gone as an opportunity for this. I'm hoping the release of Episode IX will be enough reason to do this. Neither me nor my ears want to wait for the 50th anniversary.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 9:58 PM   
 By:   kc-technerd   (Member)

I'm hoping all three will benefit from meticulous remastering. At best I think previous releases have been inconsistent in their quality. The Empire Strikes Back should theoretically be on par with the just now being released Superman: The Movie (same conductor, same orchestra, same recording engineer, same studio, same recording equipment, both with first generation 24-track 2-inch master available as a source, etc.). However, the previous updated releases of ESB seem to have the most inconsistent track-to-track quality of the entire trilogy. Of course the condition of the tapes could differ, and maybe there are other possible differences of which I'm not aware.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 10:12 PM   
 By:   kc-technerd   (Member)

In general, I just don't understand the fascination with the original album programs, in general. The music is what's important. I mean, I can't imagine a release that featured a second disc of a score never released before with "here's what it might have looked like were it released at the time of the film!" and being the same music would go over too well. So why does it matter that it was released?

I didn't used to have much interest in or appreciation of the original album presentations either. I was more interested in hearing the music exactly as presented in the film (plus any that was spotted and written for the film and either edited or dialed out). Since then I've learned that the original album presentations, and even the newly assembled album versions are almost always what the composer deemed as the best beginning to end musical listening experience as music alone, apart from the movie. That is why it has been a common practice to use different takes, sometimes with different orchestration (such as Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and sometimes a completely separate recorded performance (Capricorn One), in addition to different cue arrangement and assembly. I'm still learning that has been a more common practice that I ever would have guessed. My newly acquired score of Apollo 13 is my newest lesson in that. Knowing that, I'm very pleased that both the film sequence and album presentations are being made available in the best audio quality possible.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 22, 2019 - 10:21 PM   
 By:   erepel   (Member)

You hit the nail on the head, Saul.

Concur. I attempted to recreate the "Superman" double-LP with Blue Box material to relive with better audio that experience from late 1979 of listening to Record 1 while looking at the picture-filled LP sleeve. (Still got the double LP and the same turntable.) Even though I got close to the LP edits, at least to my ears (with the exception of the Fortress cue), now I will get to hear "Record 1" and "Record 2" assembled by a pro from the First Gen tapes.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2019 - 6:26 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

That is why it has been a common practice to use different takes, sometimes with different orchestration (such as Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and sometimes a completely separate recorded performance (Capricorn One), in addition to different cue arrangement and assembly..

I don't have a problem with alternates included, when they are actually alternate (a different orchestration is for sure welcome.....different take can be hit or miss on the 'do we really need this?' counter). There are times when it's done great --- se Balto for instance, which has a cue where there's literally a two second insertion of an otherwise identical recording, even this is fine given the reasons for it.

But for me, music is the thing, and yeah maybe the original album was a better 'listening experience' but again, that's countered by all the sheer redundancy. Intrada did a nice things a few time (and seems to have given it up mostly though) where they put the album first and the new tracks after that. Again, no problems with trying to get a 'listening experience'. But why do I need the same exact recording two (or even three) times on the same CD(s)....that's my big issue.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2019 - 6:29 AM   
 By:   Marcato   (Member)

But why do I need the same exact recording two (or even three) times on the same CD(s)....that's my big issue.




It's not for you - it's for Thor wink - It's all part of the plan to convince Thor to buy the release - just for the OST wink

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2019 - 8:13 AM   
 By:   Martin B.   (Member)

I personally like the OST being included when it contains different takes/edits from the main programme.

When the tracks are simply duplicates of the main programme then I don't see the point. However it would seem that in most cases the labels think the same. The only time these are included are usually when a) the main programme goes onto a second disc but nowhere near enough to fill it so they include the OST as a bonus rather than just including a short 2nd CD.
Alternatively it's included as part of the licensing agreement.

That said. If Mike were to be working on the Star Wars scores (please let this be so) then I really wouldn't mind having a properly remastered OST included. Lets get those horrid "remasters" consigned to history and have a properly done version sitting alongside the expanded release.

I just hope there is enough will between Williams, Lucasfilm, and Disney to put the work in to give all these scores the preservation and presentation they deserve.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 23, 2019 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Mike Petersen   (Member)

I personally like the OST being included when it contains different takes/edits from the main programme.

When the tracks are simply duplicates of the main programme then I don't see the point. However it would seem that in most cases the labels think the same. The only time these are included are usually when a) the main programme goes onto a second disc but nowhere near enough to fill it so they include the OST as a bonus rather than just including a short 2nd CD.
Alternatively it's included as part of the licensing agreement.

That said. If Mike were to be working on the Star Wars scores (please let this be so) then I really wouldn't mind having a properly remastered OST included. Lets get those horrid "remasters" consigned to history and have a properly done version sitting alongside the expanded release.

I just hope there is enough will between Williams, Lucasfilm, and Disney to put the work in to give all these scores the preservation and presentation they deserve.


This.

 
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