WTF is the point of a discussion board if I just Google everything?!!
Excellent point!
The short version is: Young John Williams played piano on the Les Baxter composition "Joy," from his suite "The Passions." The melody of "Joy" is similar to that of the ET theme.
Several people in the biz, including Henry Mancini, urged Baxter to sue. He did so.
He lost the first round. Apparently there was some ambiguity in the ruling that left open the possibility of an appeal, but Les Baxter did not pursue it.
Mancini later said that he alienated people in Hollywood for siding with Baxter.
The short version is: Young John Williams played piano on the Les Baxter composition "Joy," from his suite "The Passions." The melody of "Joy" is similar to that of the ET theme.
Several people in the biz, including Henry Mancini, urged Baxter to sue. He did so.
He lost the first round. Apparently there was some ambiguity in the ruling that left open the possibility of an appeal, but Les Baxter did not pursue it.
Mancini later said that he alienated people in Hollywood for siding with Baxter.
Only a little bit of this is true. I haven't found any source for the following:
Several people in the biz...
To the best of my knowledge, the only way Henry Mancini is involved is that supposedly he called Baxter to say that he heard similarities in the melodies. I don't recall ever having read that anyone - including Mancini - "urged Baxter to sue." Be curious if you have a source for "several people" and Mancini doing so.
He lost the first round. Apparently there was some ambiguity in the ruling that left open the possibility of an appeal, but Les Baxter did not pursue it.
Actually, he did pursue it - the whole thing dragged on from 1983 to 1990. It was pretty clearly decided in favor of Williams. One can find Lukas Kendall's breakdown of the whole thing about halfway down this page:
As far as Mancini supposedly alienating people, I have not seen any source for this either. There is substantial evidence that he and Williams remained close friends. In fact, in 1993 Mancini was a special guest at a Williams tribute concert with the Boston Pops, where he warmly embraced the composer and talked about some of their collaborations:
Lastly, here is Baxter's piece for everyone to hear and draw their own conclusions. It was released in 1954 as part of Baxter's "The Passions" LP, and was not part of a film score (if it had been part of a film score, it would have been considered an example of Eisenhower-ite cinema):
Wow, perfect. Here are Williams and Mancini in a clip from 1993 - not even the slightest hint of animosity or acrimony - look at their gestures to one another. It's actually quite touching (literally). This would have been less than 3 years after the end of the Baxter / Williams case:
My critical thinking skills tell me that, because you list John Williams as one of your three favorite composers, you are not a neutral party in the discussion.
My critical thinking skills tell me that, because you list John Williams as one of your three favorite composers, you are not a neutral party in the discussion.
The facts stand for themselves - facts which I laid out above, with corroborating evidence. I even linked the Baxter composition for people to listen to (hardly stacking the deck in Williams favor), as well as a pretty definitive breakdown of the court case laid out by Lukas. And of course your love of Baxter is well known, so I could point the finger back in the other direction. But to me that ultimately doesn't matter, as I brought actual documentation to the table, and urged people to draw their own conclusions.
Yes, I love Williams. I think he is a craftsman of impeccable skill and taste, and when the film calls for it, incredible inspiration. As a composer myself, I marvel at the intricacies and depth of his compositions. FWIW, I like Baxter and Mancini too.
(Side note - I am also one of my three favorite composers, lol. You should check out my score to "The Creep Behind the Camera" - it's almost all that 50s - 60s era stuff you seem to love so much. It's out there on CD and on the streaming services, and my score was definitely inspired by the work of Mancini, Baxter, Williams - of that era - and others. Got several very positive reviews as well. Point being that composers often take inspiration from the work of others, sometimes even against their will due to directors forcing you to copy the temp track. It's a different perspective when you are actually in the trenches, and asked to come up with an hour of original music in the space of three to four weeks.)
My critical thinking skills tell me that, because you list John Williams as one of your three favorite composers, you are not a neutral party in the discussion.
..and your own endless boosting for Baxter & all things exotica kinda levels this playing field, no?
It's interesting that the first time I heard E.T., my first thought was not of Baxter, but of Williams himself. The first five notes of the Flying Theme are also the first five notes of the Star Wars main theme. To me, it's closer to that than to "Joy."
But of course it should not be a surprise when a composer sounds like themselves
As for the TV spot that is the subject of this thread, I found it moderately charming. To me it was a little too "on the nose" in terms of essentially being a greatest hits re-tread of the original film. On the other hand, I was touched at a few moments and it was nice to see Henry Thomas himself in the ad. But being that Williams is one of my top three composers, it should come as no surprise that the biggest emotional impact of the commercial came from the re-use of Williams music. If that had been an original score for that ad, most of us would have been talking about how the music in a four minute commercial was head and shoulders better than most of the music in films today.
My critical thinking skills tell me that, because you list John Williams as one of your three favorite composers, you are not a neutral party in the discussion.
Side note - I am also one of my three favorite composers, lol. You should check out my score to "The Creep Behind the Camera" - it's almost all that 50s - 60s era stuff you seem to love so much. It's out there on CD and on the streaming services, and my score was definitely inspired by the work of Mancini, Baxter, Williams - of that era - and others. Got several very positive reviews as well. Point being that composers often take inspiration from the work of others, sometimes even against their will due to directors forcing you to copy the temp track. It's a different perspective when you are actually in the trenches, and asked to come up with an hour of original music in the space of three to four weeks.)
I would love to hear this, but I do not do Spotify, and the CD is currently on Amazon for $42. Not to suggest that your music is not worth $42. Would you happen to have a website where I can order the CD for a competitive price?
But being that Williams is one of my top three composers, it should come as no surprise that the biggest emotional impact of the commercial came from the re-use of Williams music. If that had been an original score for that ad, most of us would have been talking about how the music in a four minute commercial was head and shoulders better than most of the music in films today.
Thank you, John. It is the music that resonates so deeply on our emotions. If it had been written today just for that ad, I would have been gobsmacked, as the British would say.
I would love to hear this, but I do not do Spotify, and the CD is currently on Amazon for $42. Not to suggest that your music is not worth $42. Would you happen to have a website where I can order the CD for a competitive price?
Tell you what - I'll send you one at no charge. Then you end up paying exactly what it's worth, lol!
Sent an email to the address I found on YOUR profile (assuming it's still active).
At least I list more than three favorite composers. Last time I checked my profile, I think I listed four or five.
As you can probably tell from my posts here, I tend to be quite loquacious. It was my attempt at brevity. I like lots of composers; those are my top three.
Point being that composers often take inspiration from the work of others, sometimes even against their will due to directors forcing you to copy the temp track. It's a different perspective when you are actually in the trenches, and asked to come up with an hour of original music in the space of three to four weeks.) 