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what about the 24-track 2” analog backup mentioned in the liner notes (page 10) of the FSM edition? I guess that tape contains the unmixed channels and therefore it was excluded as a possible source due to Paramount's request not to remix the score (see this link: https://trekmovie.com/2009/07/28/review-of-wrath-of-khan-extended-soundtrack-producer-interview/) However: was this analog multi-track recording performed in parallel to the digital one during the scoring sessions? Or was it just an analog copy made from the analog outputs of the 3M 32-track digital deck?
Great question. If it was a true parallel recording, then it would yield much more detail than the 16/50 3M master ever could. But if it's just a copy of the 3M output then it wouldn't really help much.
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what about the 24-track 2” analog backup mentioned in the liner notes (page 10) of the FSM edition? I guess that tape contains the unmixed channels and therefore it was excluded as a possible source due to Paramount's request not to remix the score (see this link: https://trekmovie.com/2009/07/28/review-of-wrath-of-khan-extended-soundtrack-producer-interview/) However: was this analog multi-track recording performed in parallel to the digital one during the scoring sessions? Or was it just an analog copy made from the analog outputs of the 3M 32-track digital deck?
Great question. If it was a true parallel recording, then it would yield much more detail than the 16/50 3M master ever could. But if it's just a copy of the 3M output then it wouldn't really help much. I am quite confident the 2" 24-track analogue was a parallel backup. And we did use it for one brief passage, where the 3-track mix was wonky. Lukas
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There was a previous digital recording system called Soundstream (maybe in use from 78-80?) that actually produced some really great-sounding recordings. Telarc released some on SACDs due to the theoretically higher frequency potential of the 50kHz recording format. I don't know how the 3M machine compares to that. Straying a little from the topic, I've always thought that Final Frontier could stand a remix from the ground up by Bruce Botnick. There's nothing bad about the current mix per se, but there's something really transparent and crunchy about his new Total Recall mix. And I think Final Frontier was recorded on 3324 or 3348 format, which means the original multitracks theoretically exist and are playable. Now it wouldn't necessarily lead to a better >resolution<, but putting it all into a modern digital mix format and applying modern mixing tools would probably make it sound better. (For example, I'd love to hear the unedited version of "Without Help.")
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I am quite confident the 2" 24-track analogue was a parallel backup. And we did use it for one brief passage, where the 3-track mix was wonky. Lukas
Any chance you remember which passage this was?
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So you're saying that the 2" 24 track analog tape exists, but remains vaulted at Paramount, it did not get a digital transfer at all for the FSM project. Is that right? Do we know if all 24 tracks are raw unmixed audio, or if they recorded the 3 track film mixes onto 3 of the tracks on it?
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Understood!
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There was a previous digital recording system called Soundstream (maybe in use from 78-80?) that actually produced some really great-sounding recordings. Telarc released some on SACDs due to the theoretically higher frequency potential of the 50kHz recording format. I don't know how the 3M machine compares to that. Straying a little from the topic, I've always thought that Final Frontier could stand a remix from the ground up by Bruce Botnick. There's nothing bad about the current mix per se, but there's something really transparent and crunchy about his new Total Recall mix. And I think Final Frontier was recorded on 3324 or 3348 format, which means the original multitracks theoretically exist and are playable. Now it wouldn't necessarily lead to a better >resolution<, but putting it all into a modern digital mix format and applying modern mixing tools would probably make it sound better. (For example, I'd love to hear the unedited version of "Without Help.") Very much enjoying the Trek 2 tech talk, the one thing I wouldn't mind fixing on ST5 (and it's a pretty minor thing) is whether it would be possible to separate the horns to the left of the stage, as is usual. All of the brass is currently on the right and I'm sure there are some moments where it would be better if horns and trumpets/trombones were separate. Having said that, I assume the recording or soundstage placement was all to one side (which would be unusual and I can't think of any other occasion of Jerry placing a traditional differently to the usual setup).
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Regarding the OP question, I've been corresponding a little bit with John Davis, and it emerges that his old recording logs are out for scanning. So I asked at the worst possible time. But he indicated that the half-inch, three track analogs were probably captured at 96 kHz / 24-bit, which was standard at the time of FSM's TWOK project.
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As I've already answered, our analog-to-digital transfers were done at 44.1/24. Only the 3M transfer done at Imagineering was 96/24 in Pro Tools. Neil Well, your memory is clear and specific, so that's it. Thanks, Neil. An audio CD is 44.1 kHz/16-bit, so the MMR-8 was delivering everything we could hear at retail and then some. Not a coincidence. ST II, tremendous soundtrack.
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Okay, so maybe there were more tapes. Details coming soon. Is this real? It seems real.
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