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 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 12:13 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

There was no bias in your critique. Your analysis was right on.


Thanks, Brother Sol.
I was actually hoping that a lack of bias would somehow come across.
I gladly acknowledge that Zimmer's early years produced some really fine music.

Anyway, onward...

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 12:26 PM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

It is totally snooze-ville, and entirely the lack of surprise that I expected. I am starting to think the directors hire Zimmer because he is so predictable and unremarkable in his music. It is indifferent, a generic glaze. It sounds like he really stopped trying quite a few years ago, but, that divorce, all the bills. There we are.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 12:44 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

Wouldn't it be funny if Zimmer himself logged on to confront the naysayers?
It would be a great chance to turn him back towards the good side of The Force--it's never too late.

Of course, it's all academic if he was just following the director's edict.
(In which case... get Villenueve in here! big grin)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 12:47 PM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

I have also critiqued Zimmer’s work of the post 2000s while also acknowledging that I appreciated his 90s work, but it always goes unnoticed. Same with describing why specifically something of his is bad or I don’t like it, etc. still makes no difference.

Also, saying someone is being “revealing” is a psychological manipulation meant to prey on the human desire to define boundaries around how much vulnerability is safe to put out into the world, and its function is to specifically cross those boundaries to make something a personal attack.

Whether you have a bias or not isn’t the point and you’re more than welcome to have a bias without needing to defend it if you have a point that transcends your bias. For you, the content of your post wasn’t about bias, it was about very specific things that are indeed true about Zimmer.

And the inverse is the same for other composers - I love John Williams, he has also made some boring scores. That’s ok, and doesn’t diminish my love for his good work.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 12:55 PM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

Wouldn't it be funny if Zimmer himself logged on to confront the naysayers?
It would be a great chance to turn him back towards the good side of The Force--it's never too late.

Of course, it's all academic if he was just following the director's edict.
(In which case... get Villenueve in here! big grin)


He said in older interviews that he absolutely read these boards and other fan reviews. If I was him and I just absolutely had to know what audiences thought, I’d pay an assistant to read stuff and then cut out the insults to just present the facts. And if I was a good and self-aware composer I’d hopefully be able to say “yeah, I did use an excessive amount of screeching cellos in that score…” or “yeah, I guess I don’t need to score this with 40 French horns.”

As far as Villeneuve’s preferences, I don’t really know how much say he actually gets. Studios are very strategic now, like way worse than before, so someone like Zimmer seems strategically good because he’s the composer the young kids like these days and brings his own publicity machine that benefits initial marketing pushes. With Zimmer, I also find not just in the music but reinforced by his own interviews that he really pushes his particular vision onto the film. He often presents the process as a struggle to do something “completely different” or “experimental” and while this may seem contrary to his description of “collaborating” with other musicians, it’s actually quite anarchical. Not every soundtrack needs to be “experimental” and that’s a larger creative discussion that covers the cinematography, editing, sound design, color grading, performances, etc.

“Dunkirk” was tense because of the story, the editing, and the cinematography. Adding a grating ticking noise and screeching sounds to amplify the tension is just overly-obvious and literal.

These tracks from “Dune” are equally literal.

In contrast, the more melodic parts of “The Rock” or “Broken Arrow” have an almost emotionally poetic quality to them because the music isn’t mirroring the look and tone of the scene but the emotional core.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 12:56 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

I have also critiqued Zimmer’s work of the post 2000s while also acknowledging that I appreciated his 90s work, but it always goes unnoticed. Same with describing why specifically something of his is bad or I don’t like it, etc. still makes no difference.
Also, saying someone is being “revealing” is a psychological manipulation meant to prey on the human desire to define boundaries around how much vulnerability is safe to put out into the world, and its function is to specifically cross those boundaries to make something a personal attack.
Whether you have a bias or not isn’t the point and you’re more than welcome to have a bias without needing to defend it if you have a point that transcends your bias. For you, the content of your post wasn’t about bias, it was about very specific things that are indeed true about Zimmer.
And the inverse is the same for other composers - I love John Williams, he has also made some boring scores. That’s ok, and doesn’t diminish my love for his good work.



Nicely put, JT.

WillGold's comment was somewhat vague in its meaning--for all I know, it was meant as complimentary.
I'm fine with the ambiguity.
It doesn't matter.
People can love or hate whatever they want.
There's really no right or wrong about it.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 1:33 PM   
 By:   Landstander   (Member)

I haven't listened yet because I'm trying to go into the movie clean. Please tell me there isn't any 'vaguely middle eastern wailing woman' in these tracks.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

I haven't listened yet because I'm trying to go into the movie clean. Please tell me there isn't any 'vaguely middle eastern wailing woman' in these tracks.


The thread is fairly rife with spoilers already, my friend.
Best put the whole thread on "Ignore".

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   Mephariel   (Member)

The tracks did not blow me away. The first one "Paul's Dream" isn't even from the official album. I am intrigue though. I think this will be a monumental movie and score one way or another.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 1:43 PM   
 By:   Landstander   (Member)

I haven't listened yet because I'm trying to go into the movie clean. Please tell me there isn't any 'vaguely middle eastern wailing woman' in these tracks.


The thread is fairly rife with spoilers already, my friend.
Best put the whole thread on "Ignore".



I know Dune pretty damn well so I can't be spoiled. I'm talking about clean expectations going into the movie.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

I know Dune pretty damn well so I can't be spoiled. I'm talking about clean expectations going into the movie.


Sorry, I meant "musical spoilers" which unfortunately do answer your original question.
I guess my other post could have been more clear.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Wouldn't it be funny if Zimmer himself logged on to confront the naysayers?
It would be a great chance to turn him back towards the good side of The Force--it's never too late.


I speak from experience when I say no one wants to be on Hans’ bad side - and if they do, they soon regret it.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 2:23 PM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

I think Zimmer went by the name Onyabirri when visiting these boards. Not only don't we get his music, we didn't get his humor.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 2:24 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

I speak from experience when I say no one wants to be on Hans’ bad side - and if they do, they soon regret it.


Oh, I've read all the stories (those that have been told, anyway).
I just don't think Zimmer would have all that much ammo to intimidate me with.
He could not buy out my mortgage and force me out of my house--I own it completely.
He could not buy my loan on my car--same thing.
(In fact, I have no debt whatsoever.)
He could not buy the company I worked for and have me fired--I am retired.
He could not bully me on social media--I have no social media presence.
Did I leave anything out?

The only thing he could hurt me with is any future derivative, unimaginative scores.
But hey, I will always give him the benefit of the doubt that things may get better.

Your post sounds intriguing, though.
Is there anything that you would be safe in talking about?

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 2:52 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Your post sounds intriguing, though.
Is there anything that you would be safe in talking about?


We travel in the same social media circles, including a couple closed FB groups.

I said something unfavorable about Christopher Nolan’s output. Nothing wordy, but a hair beyond professional decorum.

I got a ghost pepper of a FB message from him about it.

(I will also admit, I deserved it. I wasn’t thinking about where I was talking and it was a hard lesson. He’s since been very kind in a handful of comments and email exchanges.)

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 3:00 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

We travel in the same social media circles, including a couple closed FB groups.
I said something unfavorable about Christopher Nolan’s output. Nothing wordy, but a hair beyond professional decorum.
I got a ghost pepper of a FB message from him about it.
(I will also admit, I deserved it. I wasn’t thinking about where I was talking and it was a hard lesson. He’s since been very kind in a handful of comments and email exchanges.)



Well, that sucks.
But I will say that if Zimmer is looking for professional decorum 100% of the time, a career in the creative arts may have been the wrong direction to take--good in it though he may be.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 3:10 PM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

We travel in the same social media circles, including a couple closed FB groups.
I said something unfavorable about Christopher Nolan’s output. Nothing wordy, but a hair beyond professional decorum.
I got a ghost pepper of a FB message from him about it.
(I will also admit, I deserved it. I wasn’t thinking about where I was talking and it was a hard lesson. He’s since been very kind in a handful of comments and email exchanges.)



Well, that sucks.
But I will say that if Zimmer is looking for professional decorum 100% of the time, a career in the creative arts may have been the wrong direction to take--good in it though he may be.


The film industry is complicated because it’s also an extremely social industry, but in a creative industry it’s always helpful to be self-aware and facilitate open communication. Jerry Goldsmith was always good at this in interviews being very honest about when he didn’t feel like his work was great or when he felt like he was was wrong in a creative discussion.

It fosters trust because people know they can be constructively honest and they know you will be honest in return.

So much of the negative aspects of the industry stem from ego management and most film problems come from that as well. Which is why it’s disappointing to hear about Zimmer trolling around social media.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 3:19 PM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

I’m confused…
Hasnt there only been released TWO tracks? One from the OST and one from the Sketches album?
Which means you have heard one cue from the movie and already written it off…?

what if the rest is amazing??

Or did the full score get released? It sure sounds like it in this thread lol

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 3:19 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Well, that sucks.

But deserved.

We have to remember, he’s as human as the rest of us. He has flaws and foibles too.

And it doesn’t outweigh his previous or later kindness either. He seems like a good enough guy and very sharp, just under constant pressure.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2021 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   Octoberdog   (Member)

I’m confused…
Hasnt there only been released TWO tracks? One from the OST and one from the Sketches album?
Which means you have heard one cue from the movie and already written it off…?
what if the rest is amazing??
Or did the full score get released? It sure sounds like it in this thread lol



Fair enough.
Let's hope you're right.
Let's hope that 3 CD's worth of music will be completely unlike these 2 tracks.
I love optimism.

 
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