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 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 2:14 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

"His astounding ability to knock out secondary themes which stand up to and often surpass the majority of main themes out there"
---------------------------
That's a very good point, Jim.
Case in point...that little Luke & Dack moment, as they board their speeders, from THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, which I absolutely loved, and wanted for such a long time (it wasn't on the original album).
Also, the 2nd half of the track Show Me Your Loyalty from DRACULA Expanded Edition. A cool little ditty to underscore a muddy old-fashioned car tootling along.
And Speeder Chase from THE RISE OF SKYWALKER. That's fantastic.
Yep, he throws them stellar B tunes around like confetti smile

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 2:28 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

In the beginning, it was the action and adventure stuff that attracted me to him. But then it quickly became apparent that it was the pastoral writing that was my favourite part of his music. That lives on to this day, as my interest in action music has waned considerably. I call it "the religious sound", even though it doesn't have to be religiously themed, necessarily. Here's a playlist I made of that particular sound:

http://celluloidtunes.no/_oldsite/non-website/jw-religious.jpg

(sorry, embedding it doesn't seem to work, you'll have to click the link).

 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 4:42 AM   
 By:   jackfuGRINCH   (Member)

So many good points raised in this thread with which I heartily agree!

Particularly the points BigJim and Kev raised about secondary themes rings true with me, thanks guys!
While by then it was nothing new with Williams, I first really noticed it in Jaws, with that bit that comes in right after the two-note motif. It has a sea-going lilt to it and it really hooked me. Then, when it came to the forte' right after the harp chords in Jaws 2 openin theme, I nearly leapt from my theater seat.

One of his most effective scores for me is Black Sunday (1977). I think it has to do with the underlying ominous sound and the 3/4 timing. Even though in some areas it's a little Omen-esque, I think it stands well enough on its own.

Williams' use of motifs or mini themes for different characters is always a welcome part of his filmscores.

 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 5:09 AM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

He made film music to become a formal respectable genre on its own and now he is touring the worlds most elite orchestras !

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 5:12 AM   
 By:   BrendonKelly   (Member)

How he doesn't give a shit about his fans..

I met him in 1996 after a concert with the LSO snd your opinion is so far from the truth it’s laughable.

He was humble, thankful and interested in the conversation. A gentle, kind and very clever man, I certainly consider him a very humble genius.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 6:09 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

Forget it, Brendon.
Some people don't quite GET the title of this thread...or its true meaning.
Let's hope they can find pleasure and happiness elsewhere.

 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 7:09 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

He's not my cup of tea at all, but I do like his Home Alone scores + the Schindler theme.

 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

For me? This cemented my decades long love affair with film scores.



Yes, I liked films scores before Star Wars. Some of my earlier favorites Bambi, Pinochio, Ben Hur, Godizlla (54) Jaws, Three Musketeers, Swashbuckler, Logan's Run, to name a few.

But JW brought my favorite kind of music, "thematic scoring" to the forefront and popular again. Because of the success of Star Wars we got some of the best work out of Goldsmith and Conti (IMHO) and a slew of new talent followed, Horner, Poledouris, Elfman, many others of course.

Not really into JW's Pre-Jaws era.

 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 11:09 AM   
 By:   Hedji   (Member)

His ability to pull notes out of the heavens and somehow have them all fit into a perfect and appealing melody that could only be the way it is, yet you could never yourself string a sentence of notes like that if someone gave you a lifetime to do so. (Raiders, Star Wars)

His purposeful action music, propelled by ostinatos performed by celli and bass. (Superman and Raiders)

His ability to make every piece of the orchestra contribute its best. A harp can be both delicate, tender, and emotional or swirling, atonal, and uncertain. (ET and Jaws)

His writing is able to take us out of our comfort zone (Minority Report, CE3K), but almost always lands and musically defines the warmth and soul of humanity. (the Patriot, E.T., Home Alone )

I don't know how he does it, but his music always seems to fit the emotional part of my brain like a glove. Just when I think I've heard it all, he will write something where I smile, and feel that feeling of soaring, yet I throw my hands up in disbelief that one man is responsible for all of it.

As a person, he is exactly who you'd expect him to be, and how you'd want him to be.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 9:31 PM   
 By:   Thierry Schreurs   (Member)

His astounding ability to knock out secondary themes which stand up to and often surpass the majority of main themes out there. Love it.

I totally second this. His secondary themes and his incidental or transition music in the middle of the scores are absolutely terrific. Even more than his main thematic material I would say.

His ability to go from the most delicate or low key moments with the orchestra to enormous or flamboyant full orchestral passages has nearly no equal.

Also his gift to go from dramatic or suspense/action moments to flamboyant symphonic reprise of the main thematic material is fantastic. Typical example: the bycycle ride escape of Elliot and friends through the neighbourhood and eventual take-off above the forest in E.T. is incredible. Also obvious great theme reprises in JAWS, SUPERMAN, JURASSIC PARK and of course most of the STAR WARS scores.

The main other composer IMHO who comes immediately to mind and would do this that way was James Horner...like in STAR TREK II and III, KRULL, WILLOW or THE ROCKETEER for instance.

Other people I think for this: Alan Silvestri, John Debney, Joel McNeely, David Newman and Bruce Broughton...in YOUNG SHERLOCK HOLMES and SILVERADO....

But John Williams is the master at this thing!

Jerry Goldsmith's style is totally different with his odd mixed meters but he also did this thing on various occasions like in THE WIND AND THE LION, THE SWARM, NIGHT CROSSING, POLTERGEIST, SUPERGIRL, KING SOLOMON'S MINES, LIONHEART, AIR FORCE ONE, MULAN, THE MUMMY,...

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 13, 2021 - 11:49 PM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

Yes, John Williams is EXTREMELY adept at transitions, not just at the end of cues but also short cues that offer transitional moments.

Coupled with this is indeed his outstanding use of dynamics, which Thierry describes. It's very pre-digital compression-era, because it switches between loud and soft, but it's rarely heard in scores nowadays and is so artful and distinctive, pushing the listener to fully be enveloped in the music.

It also allows Williams to write very effective, short transitional moments like this in HOME ALONE or E.T.:





One of the best examples of so many of his beautiful techniques at work is the cue "At Home" from E.T. It demonstrates Williams' extreme adeptness at evolving between so many different emotions within a cue, with not a single note or instrument wasted. One of his greatest skills is knowing what instruments NOT to include, and throughout this cue you'll hear so many different sections where only half of the orchestra is playing. His ear for dynamics is present throughout, and is his focus on virtuoso writing for instruments, in this case the harp. Having been blessed with the opportunity to see this scored live to picture, it was only more impressive how challenging this score is, how beautiful it is, and how much it lives and breathes. This isn't just melodic writing - but the harp and strings breathe in and out, giving the music a sense of liveliness and magic that transcends its origins as notes on paper:

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 14, 2021 - 2:34 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

Some 'Good Lovin' goin on here.
Really enjoying the replies.
I especially like this one, by Hedji. Fits me to a tee.

"I don't know how he does it, but his music always seems to fit the emotional part of my brain like a glove. Just when I think I've heard it all, he will write something where I smile, and feel that feeling of soaring, yet I throw my hands up in disbelief that one man is responsible for all of it"

smile

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 14, 2021 - 2:51 AM   
 By:   moolik   (Member)

Yes...he is ,miles ahead of the others who are around....He IS writing symphonies for almost every picture...yes sometimes its not that strong...but even his weaker stuff is better than most of the other stuff around. His writing has so much layers and textures...even if he does the stacatto driven scenes like WAR OF THE WORLDS...its not that stupid cheap "BADARAMTAMTAM Action mess.It´s well thought out and crafted. I mean just compare it to those Tyler Bates ..Junkie XL...Brian Tyler Action cues etc...just cheap...

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 14, 2021 - 2:54 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

'Elliot's First Kiss' was my Most Wanted piece of music from E.T for many years!
That, and the proper (film version) E.T Dies track.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 14, 2021 - 2:58 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

"He IS writing symphonies for almost every picture"
------------------
Yep.
It took me a while to get a handle on it at first, but THE BFG plays like a Concerto for Wind Ensemble at times.
It's such a mesmerising work.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 14, 2021 - 8:00 AM   
 By:   Luc Van der Eeken   (Member)

How he doesn't give a shit about his fans.

Why are you even in this thread? Your statement is rude (as always) and untrue.

 
 Posted:   Oct 15, 2021 - 4:51 AM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)


His music is mostly not for me, though.


One should know it is not very inteligent to shame oneself in public...

 
 Posted:   Oct 15, 2021 - 5:09 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)


His music is mostly not for me, though.


One should know it is not very inteligent to shame oneself in public...


Look who's talking.

Does it make you angry and insecure?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 15, 2021 - 5:52 AM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

What do I love about John Williams ? Easy.... MELODY ! The sound of two bricks slamming together is not for him or from him.
Thank heavens !

 
 Posted:   Oct 15, 2021 - 8:17 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Look who's talking.
Does it make you angry and insecure?



Question: why would it?
Do you believe assessments come only from a center of anger and insecurity?

 
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