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Here's a fun "what if" to consider...
According to Tim Greiving's liner notes for "Wyatt Earp," James Newton Howard was committed to scoring "The Client" for Schumacher, but pulled out so that he could work on the Kasdan film instead, and so ended his working relationship with Schumacher.
Up to that point, they had collaborated on "Flatliners," "Dying Young," and "Falling Down." It stands to reason, as Howard was clearly Schumacher's composer of choice at this time, that had Howard stayed on "The Client," he might have been brought on to score "Batman Forever."
I don't want to take anything away from Goldenthal's effort, but I would have loved to hear a Batman score from Howard circa 1995. It would have obviously been a very different take than what he later did for the character.
Of course, that means Howard probably wouldn't have had time for "Waterworld."
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Posted: |
Jul 12, 2022 - 8:15 AM
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By: |
John Mullin
(Member)
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Yes, a lot of VeronicaMars post above appears to be inaccurate / fictional.
The root of the Burton / Elfman falling out seems to be 100% "The Nightmare Before Christmas." Elfman appears to have felt that he was under-credited for his contributions to the movie. An article within the last couple years (on Collider?) revealed that at one time, Elfman had recorded all the speaking lines for Jack Skellington as well his "singing" parts, but Selick and Burton agreed that his acting left something to be desired, so Chris Sarandon was brought in to re-record the lines fairly late in the process. This is speculation on my part, but perhaps incidents like that, depending on how gracefully they were handled, contributed to their falling out as well.
But none of that matters in regard to Batman Forever, really, because Burton basically had no involvement. I don't know the story behind the credit "A Tim Burton Production" that appears at the head of the picture, but he has said in interviews that he had nothing to do with it. He said that he had a couple meetings with WB after RETURNS, but it was clear that they didn't really want him to make a third movie, so he moved on to other projects. Was his producer credit there because contracts had been signed and WB was obligated to credit (and pay) him? Did WB feel that a certain segment of the fanbase would be placated if they saw Burton's name on the movie during the opening credits? Who knows.
I'll stop there, but the rest of that post is making my brain hurt!
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I'm surprised that nobody has yet said that John Williams refused permission for Goldenthal to use Elfman's theme.
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Posted: |
Jul 12, 2022 - 3:33 PM
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By: |
darthbrett
(Member)
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Regarding Keaton's exit, here is a transcript from an interview Keaton did, not sure when, from a doc about unmade Burton films that is on YT.
Q: There were all kinds of reports at the time that I know have been questioned since people were saying you were
unhappy with the salary offer, that the villains were getting more complex but the hero wasn't or other stuff. But
fundamentally, the reason you did not continue as Batman --
MK: It's not a great deal with speculation, because I can simplify it for you. It sucked! The script never was great.
Q: Right.
MK: I didn't understand why he (Schumacher) wanted to do what he wanted to do.
Q: Which was to make it not dark, right?
MK: Yeah. I knew we were, and I hung on for many meetings and I was polite up to a point about saying, "Ya know, do
you think maybe, are you getting this? And do you understand the thing?" But I knew it (the film/script) was in
trouble when he (Schumacher) said, "Why does everything have to be so dark?" And I went, "Okay, well, he
witnessed the death of his parents. You know?" And not only that, like physically it had to be brightened up. And
also, then it became the thing of "Oh, let's do bright colored cameos". I mean, I just, I...Ya know now, I gotta
say had Tim (Burton) been saying, "Hey, I want to experiment with something..."
Q: You might have been more open?
MK: I would have been waaay open to it! Because I thought, one, in this guy's hands (Burton), who knows? Ya know?
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Let's clear this What happend between Burton and Elfman was that Elfman got ticked off at Burton because his score was buried for the most part under all of the special effects as well as sound effects work during post production of the film and at that point Elfman considered Batman Returns his biggest score to date with what he felt was great thematic work and was probably way too close to personally. Burton also felt he wrote too much music for it at a whopping 95 Minutes which was 20 minutes longer than the original Batman score three years earlier. This pretty much cost Elfman working on Ed Wood in 1994 which Howard Shore scored in Elfman's absence and finally mended fences to work again on Mars Attacks! and been together ever since. Also, keep in mind, Elfman worked on A Nightmare Before Christmas in which I'm sure Burton kept his distance from Elfman who mostly worked with Director Henry Selick on that film and Burton was the producer on in 1993.
So much is wrong here.
Oh really. Then why is the sources I got this from are industry insiders who know more than anyone else. This includes a music editor on the project and engineer and several other label runners as well who have stated this story many times in the last twenty years.
Before you start stating crap that you may or may not know, I'll take the insider sources more so than you.
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McDonald's shut down their Happy Meals connected with the film
Though happily they roared back with their terrific animated series toys! I got a bag of all the vehicle toys for a song at a McD's one freezing Winter's morning driving through Wyoming in 1993. Still got 'em!
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