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For what it's worth, I had access to the 8-track master from this session and everything appeared to have been recorded at the same time, at the same date.
Lukas
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I would also think, given that JB (with Phil Ramone at the controls) had just recorded the film sessions for Midnight Cowboy in New York, that they called on some of the same musicians.
Which begs the question: Who was in the brass section of the film version of "Joe Buck rides Again"?
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While this does not answer the question, a ten-year-old article about the recording of the song actually complicates the matter because Satchmo plays "fragile" trumpet on "Pretty Little Missy," which was the newly recorded flip slide of WHATTITW.
And there is no mention of Armstrong playing on the Bond song.
Unable to include a link, but the article is called "45 Years of "We Have All the Time in the World" (And "Pretty Little Missy"!}
Armstrong's friend Jack Bradley shot the photographs of Armstrong, Barry, and Hal David.
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Google Jack Bradley John Barry and more info pops up. This mentions five basses. Milt Hinton and Ron Carter are among the very best bass players in jazz. The article does not mention any other musicians from the session.
“After over a year’s lay-off, Louis made his first professional engagement on October 23. The occasion was a record date to do the theme song of a new James Bond movie. Accompanying Louis was a large string section including five basses (among them Milt Hinton, Jack Lesberg and Ron Carter). Derek Smith was on piano and John Barry was the arranger and musical director. The title tune was All The Time In The World, a love ballad which will appear on the movie soundtrack."
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So did phil Ramone only produce the song and also the score?
or did Barry produce the score and phil ramone the song
or did phil ramone also produce the album in addition the song while barry produced the score? (that would mean he would have to be creditied album produced by and not just a produced by)
i have always found that producig credit odd since Barry always were credited as producer for his score
it's like the listing on STAR WARS with GL as producer - i find that odd when compared to the normal and something is missing from the information
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So did phil Ramone only produce the song and also the score?
Mark, there's a good book by Jon Burlingame called The Music of James Bond which gets pretty specific about what Phil Ramone did.
Basically, Ramone was in charge of the synthesizers and worked with Barry for three weeks leading up to the recording, and supervised the synthesizers during the recording. He also engineered the recording of the song in New York.
Cheers
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Well Wikipedia (yes, I know!) has the most likely candidate as Herb Alpert.
I'd bet any money that this is bull***t.
Honestly, this is the problem with the internet age, and public access knowledge bases like Wikipedia exemplify it:
Assumption, confabulation, and hearsay becomes "fact" simply because it gets repeated.
Cheers
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Assumption, confabulation, and hearsay becomes "fact" simply because it gets repeated.
Stephen, I didn't realize you were such an expert on American politics!
Also, while Alpert has praised Barry for formulating the Bond sound--and saying that he didn't get the credit he deserved for doing it--I think he might have mentioned playing on such an iconic song if he had.
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I heard Alpert (with I assume the Brass) in a concert c. 1975. Terrific show. Nice to imagine he did that little flugelhorn gig with Barry and Satchmo.
Hey, I was delighted to attend a Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass concert myself in January 1967, a time when they were still my favorite musical act. (Only months before I would finally start buying soundtrack LPs at age 13). When I read that the TJB would perform four shows at Chicago's prestigious Arie Crown Theater on a Thursday through Sunday, I wanted to be there on the first night -- even though I had to get up for school on Friday. It was a thrilling evening for me... despite most other kids my age being into The Beatles. But Sunday morning, our newspaper's front page reported that empty concert venue having burned to the ground only hours after the Saturday show. Another reason I've always been glad I went the evening I did!
However, Howard, had Alpert performed on that Louis Armstrong recording, I expect he would have been credited on the album jacket: such as "Herb Alpert appears through courtesy of A&M Records" (since Alpert co-owned the TJB's record label along with his partner, Jerry Moss). It would attach a still greater level of nostalgic pleasure to that song for me if it were true... but I figure that soloist is yet to be identified.
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Alpert. The Beatles. Not to mention Billy Dee Williams(?!). We're talking "A Taste of Honey" and for me it was Herb's version that accompanied the home team entering the high school gym and launching into pre-game layups on the basketball court Friday nights in the winter. Right around when you were attending that concert. Did they perform it that night?
Oh, sure they did that one, since it was among the band's biggest hits. According to the booklet notes for their only compilation CD I bought, "Herb's dramatic arrangement of 'A Taste of Honey' mixed sleek self-assurance with Bond-like intrigue," and the top-10 hit won 1965's Grammy for Record of the Year.
I know the Brass performed a lot of my favorites that night, but today the only number I specifically still remember experiencing is what opened the evening. By then I had bought and absorbed four or five of their albums, though somehow I never heard the first. But when the curtain rose on the band in place and starting a piece with no speech or introduction, I instinctively recognized that that one had to be their debut hit which I had read about but never heard, and yet instantly loved: "The Lonely Bull." THAT was a memory to carry along into rewarding old age!
I figured the James Bond reference I quoted above could kind of bring this post back on-topic; but I want to mention one more thing about the Tijuana Brass from the early 1960s, with their wonderful, embracing blend of mariachi, easy-listening, and light jazz styles, with sometimes unexpected humor.
Earlier I wrote that the Tijuana Brass were what I was listening to the most, at the time I transitioned to soundtrack albums in my early teens. It was a few years later that I finally recognized that the Herb Alpert records and arrangements -- with their mariachi flavor, periodic whistled melodies, and even occasional tastes of female vocalise sometimes in the background -- were my own gateway to Ennio Morricone's scores for Sergio Leone's first three Italian Westerns... especially for their trumpet-duel climactic cues.
I didn't get to have the sort of real-world nostalgic association of Herb Alpert recordings like you did with basketball games in your youth, Howard. But in a different way, they conducted me to a very important "next stage" for me. Alpert is still alive and in his 90s; I hope he's in good health. But Howard, I'll thank you for the pleasure I had today in pulling out and revisiting some LPs I hadn't listened to in about 40 years.
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Posted: |
Aug 31, 2024 - 3:56 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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Since Armstrong was based in NYC it's a good bet that the orchestra was recorded there as well particularly since Barry earlier that year recorded the score for Midnight Cowboy there (though the orchestra tracks were rerecorded in London for the soundtrack LP) and it would have been a familiar environment for him. Assuming this is the case, I imagine Phil Ramone (who knew who the players were in the city, employing jazz great Phil Woods for Billy Joel's "Just the Way You Are") would have engaged one of the top area session players of the time. My guess would be either Marvin Stamm, who also played the flugelhorn on Wings' Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey (recorded at A & R Recording) or Snooky Young, who joined the Tonight Show Band in 1967 (when the show was still based in NYC). Wikipedia indicates Stamm, who is now in his eighties (sadly, Snooky died some time ago), maintains a website. You might try writing him there as if he didn't play on the track he would probably know who did. Yet another possibility is Freddie Hubbard who did a lot of session work in NYC in the sixties/seventies, including the "Zanzibar" track on the (also Ramone-produced) Billy Joel album, 52nd. Street.
Update
Going through Phil Ramone's book "Making Records," though there is a passing mention of Ramone working with Barry and John Richards (recording engineer) in London on the OHMSS score, there is nothing about his working with Armstrong on this song (only a 1969 credits' listing). Also, I had read on some website message board that Herb Alpert recorded his parts for Casino Royale in LA, Bacharach, who likely had the Tijuana Brass in mind when writing the score (not Ramone suggesting a performer), combining these parts with the London-recorded backing track (perhaps Bacharach's memoir can confirm one way or the other). Though there's a possibility that Alpert did something similar on "We Have All the Time" I would guess he wasn't involved with the recording.
Detective work is fun.
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Marvin Stamm also played the beautiful trumpet lead on Quincy Jones' recording of "Cast Your Fate to the Wind" from the Smackwater Jack album, co-produced by Phil Ramone--with Ray Brown and Quincy Jones.
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Posted: |
Sep 1, 2024 - 9:07 AM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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My guess would be either Marvin Stamm, who also played the flugelhorn on Wings' Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey (recorded at A & R Recording) or Snooky Young, who joined the Tonight Show Band in 1967 (when the show was still based in NYC). Wikipedia indicates Stamm, who is now in his eighties (sadly, Snooky died some time ago), maintains a website. You might try writing him there as if he didn't play on the track he would probably know who did. Yet another possibility is Freddie Hubbard who did a lot of session work in NYC in the sixties/seventies, including the "Zanzibar" track on the (also Ramone-produced) Billy Joel album, 52nd. Street.
Marvin Stamm also played the beautiful trumpet lead on Quincy Jones' recording of "Cast Your Fate to the Wind" from the Smackwater Jack album, co-produced by Phil Ramone--with Ray Brown and Quincy Jones.
Tracked down Mr. Stamm and left a v-mail last evening. He just called back and we conversed for half an hour. No, he does not believe he did the solo but threw in the names Bernie Glow, Joe Wilder, Marky Markowitz, Mel Davis and Bernie Royal as possibilities. Spoke too of working a lot with Ramone, Bacharach and David, not to mention doing the solo trumpet act with Stan Kenton in '61-'62. Told him I too sat in with Kenton and his orchestra but in around '73 as a high school tenor saxer during an all-day clinic they ran attended by several other NJ high school musicians.
He will contact later in the week a Los Angeles outfit or other that should have access to the recording session contracts. And said he will get back to me one way or another.
What a great guy, "always happy to talk with a music person."
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Posted: |
Sep 1, 2024 - 10:42 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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My guess would be either Marvin Stamm, who also played the flugelhorn on Wings' Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey (recorded at A & R Recording) or Snooky Young, who joined the Tonight Show Band in 1967 (when the show was still based in NYC). Wikipedia indicates Stamm, who is now in his eighties (sadly, Snooky died some time ago), maintains a website. You might try writing him there as if he didn't play on the track he would probably know who did. Yet another possibility is Freddie Hubbard who did a lot of session work in NYC in the sixties/seventies, including the "Zanzibar" track on the (also Ramone-produced) Billy Joel album, 52nd. Street.
Marvin Stamm also played the beautiful trumpet lead on Quincy Jones' recording of "Cast Your Fate to the Wind" from the Smackwater Jack album, co-produced by Phil Ramone--with Ray Brown and Quincy Jones.
Tracked down Mr. Stamm and left a v-mail last evening. He just called back and we conversed for half an hour. No, he does not believe he did the solo but threw in the names Bernie Glow, Joe Wilder, Marky Markowitz, Mel Davis and Bernie Royal as possibilities. Spoke too of working a lot with Ramone, Bacharach and David, not to mention doing the solo trumpet act with Stan Kenton in '61-'62. Told him I too sat in with Kenton and his orchestra but in around '73 as a high school tenor saxer during an all-day clinic they ran attended by several other NJ high school musicians.
He will contact later in the week a Los Angeles outfit or other that should have access to the recording session contracts. And said he will get back to me one way or another.
What a great guy, "always happy to talk with a music person."
Very cool stuff, Howard. Actually, Bernie Glow had also occured to me. Apparently, from a YT comment I read, Barry was present at the Armstrong recording session. Also, the recording quality between this track and the other London-recorded tracks is, to my ears, noticeably different (different ambience). As for the solo bits, I believe it's just a very mellow trumpet (rather than a flugel), all the notes "in the staff." Maybe Barry himself played it!
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Howard, If you get a chance play the Quincy recording of "Cast Your Fate to the Wind" before you talk to Mr. Stamm again. I just listened to it again--a short but beautiful flugelhorn solo. And I can't be sure that he did not play on the Bond song. Though, he would have remembered working with Armstrong, the backing track might have been done prior to Satchmo's vocal.
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