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 Posted:   Apr 26, 2001 - 11:30 PM   
 By:   AndrĂ© Lux   (Member)

Goldsmith has composed some quite mediocre (for his standards of course) all over his career. This is not a "late 20th century" privilege.

The fact is, in the past, Goldsmith was offered much more good movies to score. Nowadays is quite the contrary - for each LA CONFIDENTIAL he is offered twelve CONGOs or HOLLOW MAN... And the same isn't happening with hacks like Horny or the Noizemaker, althought they can only deliver lame and derivative scores, no matter what kind of movies they work for!!

That's what mr. Kendall was trying to say, obviously..."> Well, maybe not so obviously after all...

 Posted:   Apr 26, 2001 - 11:49 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

"...with the possible exception of THE THIRTEEN WARRIOR which I like to listen to in the car on long trips."

I've been Hoosiering it up in the car meself over the last 2 days. Anyway, that's the interesting thing about someone both prolific & good: whether you put on Patch Of Blue, 13th Warrior, Hoosiers or an old Twilight Zone episode, Goldsmith is Goldsmith be it rookie, veteran or elder statesman. There's a built-in diminishing of respect if you dwell on this comparative thing but it goes away quickly once you realize the futility (read: waste) of it all. Reminds me of a tight-lipped Auda (Anthony Quinn) concerning the great El Orens, "He is not perfect." Auda still clung to him.

That's not to say any composer's work is beyond critical analysis. Re Goldsmith in the context of this discussion, however, it is to say you're entering the realm of nitpicking when you get down to it.

excellent, on-the-mark correlation, Mr. nelson


[This message has been edited by Howard L (edited 27 April 2001).]

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 12:09 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

My 2 cents is that the film industry has been deteriorating steadily for over a decade. Each year there seem to be fewer quality productions, and tons of stuff for the zombiefied.
It wasn't that long ago when Bonita & I would go to the movies several times each month. Now it's down to a handful of times every year.
There's just nothing out there that interests me anymore, and probably the next movie that I see will be the new Planet Of The Apes. Isn't that a sad thought?

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 12:10 AM   
 By:   JeffBond   (Member)

I can't think of a year that hasn't gone by since 1985 without some score signalling to the collector populace that Jerry Goldsmith was finished as a composer and that his self-deluded fans just couldn't accept it. I certainly remember thinking the same thing, literally getting a chilly, "oh my GOD" feeling listening to Runaway. Or Leviathan. Or Mr. Baseball. Or Forever Young. Or Chain Reaction.

Goldsmith can still hit and miss like any other composer. Goldsmith has his Along Came A Spider, Horner has his Enemy at the Gates. I also found The Haunting dull and there just doesn't seem to be enough there on the Along Came A Spider album to get me interested (I like the "Ransom" cue okay). But I still find Hollow Man to be a real home run that I've listened to dozens of times. Some people like that Outland-type approach and treasure the seemingly limitless amount of variations and nuances Goldsmith can get out of it (it's his style, and it's as simple as that)--others deem this Goldsmith's "sound-alike" action music and listen no further.

Only someone incredibly biased to begin with could take a comment about Goldsmith and see it as evidence of a slam on Horner. I got tired of this topic ages ago. If you don't like Goldsmith, fine. If you don't like Horner, fine. We're all entitled to like whatever music we please. We're even allowed to explain WHY we like or dislike a composer. But I feel embarrassed for people on these nonstop crusades to PROVE that there's a conspiracy afoot to defame their favorite composer, people who just won't rest until everyone admits their composer can beat up every other composer.

Actually, maybe it will help if as a representative of FSM's editorial department, I personally say this: James Horner is the best composer working in America. His music is infinitely superior to Jerry Goldsmith's. It is also completely original, never reusing any prior musical phrases. When James Horner quotes classical sources it is because of a). he was forced to follow the temp track, b.) the director wanted it, c.) he had a specific classical effect he was going after and expects everyone to know what music he is quoting. I will also state that Jerry Goldsmith must be influenced by Stravinsky and Bartok and that the beginning of Total Recall sounds just like Conan the Barbarian.

There! A great moral weight has been lifted from my shoulders...

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 12:24 AM   
 By:   Beatty   (Member)

But what abot the Irreducible Core! The IR-RE-DU-CI-BUL Core!

I have never understood why every day in filmscore-fandom isn't a gleaming love-fest of camarderie and honey.

Wait, yes I do.

Comic Book Guy: No, I do not have a receipt. I won it as a door prize at the Star Trek Convention, although I find their choice of prize highly illogical, as the average trekker has no use for a medium-sized belt.
Salesman: Whoa! Whoa! A fat, sarcastic Star Trek fan. You must be a devil with the ladies.

------------------" TARGET=_blank> np: See it live! (Mostly!)

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 1:35 AM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

Howard and Jeff nailed it. As for the rotting pumpkin, its motivations are drearily manifest and not worthy of further comment.

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 5:03 AM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

Hey, K-Y!(Whoops! I mean K-9!">)!
I drove to the beach today for the weekend and it's a long trip and for the majority of the trip, I was listening to The 13th Warrior! I was thinking, whilst listening to that rather long track, about 25 minutes into the cd, "MAN! this is such a fantastic score!!!" I thought it really odd that I was doing something someone was thinking!">

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   K-9   (Member)


Even stranger, I live at the beach(Va. Beach).">


 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 6:55 AM   
 By:   AHerrera83   (Member)

And still continuing with the sports analogies... Hasn't anyone heard of "a slump"?

Jerry Goldsmith's provided very memorable music for lame films before (anyone seen LEVIATHAN lately?), so I don't really buy the idea that lame films are always responsible for their musical output. Perhaps he's just seeking new inspiration for now.

I do, however, remember some criticism a couple of years back saying that John Williams's days were numbered...and then came "Duel of the Fates" and THE PATRIOT. I don't see those negative posts anymore.

Let's just continue to wait anxiously for Goldsmith's and Williams's new scores (and yes, even Horner's)!

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 6:56 AM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

Hey, K!
that's EXACTLY where I am!!!!(Well, I'm actually in Norfolk, but close enough!)

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 7:09 AM   
 By:   K-9   (Member)

Hey Jim,
You picked a GREAT weekend to come to the beach, the weather is supposed to be perfect. Enjoy!!!!">">

As for Goldsmith, funny as it sounds after what I've said before, I still look for his new releases, still see movies he's scoring just for the score(why do you think I wasted my time with ALONG CAME A SPIDER?"> ), and will still be buying the ones I like. If Jerry is in a "slump", then here's hoping his "batting average" improves in the future.


 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 7:25 AM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

Hey, K!
You know.... there are only TWO of Goldsmith's compositions that I absolutely can't stand; the first is Christus Apollo(ICK!) and the second is.... ready?.... Lillies(sp?) of the Field! I can not STAND that score! ARRGGGHHH">
Oh well, I might go down to the shore this weekend, I never know when it comes to Va Beach! Such a generic beach with no personality(Though I used to love it!)
Later, dude!">

 Posted:   Apr 28, 2001 - 6:25 AM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

I can understand not liking "Christus Apollo," but LILIES OF THE FIELD? What do you make of A PATCH OF BLUE, Jim? LILIES isn't one of Goldsmith's more "exciting" works, but it's perfectly pleasant, and was considered a high-water mark in his career at the time.

 Posted:   Apr 28, 2001 - 9:21 AM   
 By:   Jim Cleveland   (Member)

Hey Rocco!
I LOVE A Patch of Bleu(The French version(HAH!))!
My problem with LOTF is that damned song AMEN!
As for Christus Apollo, I just can't stand that chorus. It seems to me that is was poorly written. Ugh; I'm getting ill just thinking about it!">

 Posted:   Apr 28, 2001 - 9:43 AM   
 By:   Mark Olivarez   (Member)

Jerry Goldsmith on a bad day is 10 times better than some of the crap that is passed off as film music these days. My personal opinion is that I would expect Jerry to be running out of fresh ideas. My god the man is in his 70's, he's been scoring films for 40+ years. Horner started running out of fresh ideas in his 30's after what 15 years?

Plus Jerry's music just sounds so much damn better than Horner's."> No matter if it sounds like a previous effort.

Maybe if Horner was in his 60 & 70's and had just started his self plagarism we may be cutting him the same slack we give Jerry.

Lukas is right composers probably do have a hard time finding something interesting to say musically.

I could also say if you don't like it go find another site where they praise Horner to death but then that's not my style. I welcome everyone no matter their opinion.

 Posted:   Apr 28, 2001 - 10:05 AM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

Everything Mark said.

 Posted:   Apr 28, 2001 - 10:05 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

"And still continuing with the sports analogies... Hasn't anyone heard of 'a slump'?"

A better analogy is the fact that a ball player is considered a helluva hitter when he nails it only 1 out of every 3 at bats. And what's the best home run ratio, 1:10 or something like that? Slump?? BALONEY.

 Posted:   Apr 27, 2001 - 11:25 PM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

I was going to jump in here and offer impossibly tight deadlines as another possible explanation for "less-than-classic" work, but that would get shot down with Air Force One, a truly great piece of work that was literally thrown together in what...ten days?
I cannot imagine it...

 Posted:   Jan 22, 2023 - 6:32 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)


 Posted:   Jan 22, 2023 - 6:33 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

We got all these best/worst Goldsmith et al. threads going on and I thought a sneak back to the earlier days on the subject might be neat. And it is! Not to mention instructive. cool

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