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 Posted:   May 10, 2006 - 11:25 PM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)

But it's exactly in the scenes involving these crucial points that Powell goes the traditional route.

You're misconstruing my point, which was that in order to aid in the suspension of disbelief, the filmmakers should've striven to maintain a consistent tone in as many technical facets as possible, so that the world created in the film would feel as self-contained to the viewer as possible, which is crucial to the genre. I wasn't arguing for traditional orchestral scoring over the new wave approach; I was just saying that one should've been chosen over the other.

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 2:21 AM   
 By:   Paul MacLean   (Member)

While the "scenes that matter" are well-scored, the pop elements severely taint the entire experience of watching the film, at least for me.

Still...stylistic inappropriateness aside, Ladyhawk is certainly a better-written score than The Princess Bride, TD's Legend, or Giorgio Morodor's goofy cues in The NeverEnding Story.


Paul

 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 2:53 AM   
 By:   BlanketyBlank   (Member)

You can argue all you want that a traditional score would be anachronistic, whatever... but at least it would have been of-a-piece with the tone and style of the rest of the film. As it is, the crummy pop funk music in LADYHAWKE is the aural equivalent of the characters in the film wearing clown wigs. It sticks out like a sore thumb, and jarrs me right out of the picture every time it comes crashing in. The love theme is nice, sure... but that's like saying half an actors performance is good. It's got to be ALL good. In the end, LADYHAWKE remains one of the most wasted opportunities in the history of film scoring. IMHO of course.

But I am glad Thor finally saw the film.

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 3:15 AM   
 By:   franz_conrad   (Member)

Of course Gerard Schurmann was originally contracted to score the movie ...

Would have been interesting to hear...
... if not to see... it's one film I won't mind never seeing again.

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 3:32 AM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

You can argue all you want that a traditional score would be anachronistic, whatever... but at least it would have been of-a-piece with the tone and style of the rest of the film. As it is, the crummy pop funk music in LADYHAWKE is the aural equivalent of the characters in the film wearing clown wigs.

Just to inject a bite of reality into the discussion....


While film music fanboys might wish to diss this release, I can tell you it was one of GNP's bestselling soundtracks..

The fans of this film really liked the score...

An example of this different viewpoint can be find in the buyers comments for this item at AMAZON.COM


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B000001P1O/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/102-7060144-7188927?%5Fencoding=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=5174

Also, having seen the comments that GNP got from there kick back cards that they included in this relesae, I can tell you that folks really like this score,It seemed very popular with WOMEN, not exactly the biggest buyers of score CDS.

I just thought that this view should be mentioned


Ford A. Thaxton




 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 3:48 AM   
 By:   franz_conrad   (Member)

That is interesting... I've often wondered what scores appeal more to women than to men...

Could it be related to the film's appeal at all?

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 4:39 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

You're misconstruing my point, which was that in order to aid in the suspension of disbelief, the filmmakers should've striven to maintain a consistent tone in as many technical facets as possible, so that the world created in the film would feel as self-contained to the viewer as possible, which is crucial to the genre. I wasn't arguing for traditional orchestral scoring over the new wave approach; I was just saying that one should've been chosen over the other.

Yes, I get that. But my point was that the traditional approach to the crucial scenes maintained the suspension of disbelief that such a fantasy requires. That there are some transportation and action scenes with a pop beat do not undermine this, IMO. In fact, it adds a rhythmic quality to the visuals that it wouldn't have had otherwise. And it's experimental, which is a quality in itself.

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 4:42 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

While the "scenes that matter" are well-scored, the pop elements severely taint the entire experience of watching the film, at least for me.

OK, that's fair. But it begs the question if anyone has really sat down to LISTEN to the music in these transportation and action sequences. Is there anything in THE MUSIC ITSELF AND HOW IT RELATES TO THE VISUALS that causes you to dislike it, or is it simply because it has pop associations and breaks with convention?

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 4:43 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

The love theme is nice, sure... but that's like saying half an actors performance is good. It's got to be ALL good.

Well, I think the pop track scenes are good as well, albeit unusual. Otherwise, see my response to Paul above.

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 4:45 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

That is interesting... I've often wondered what scores appeal more to women than to men...

Could it be related to the film's appeal at all?


There have actually been a couple of threads about this, such as:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.asp?threadID=11495&forumID=7

 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)

But my point was that the traditional approach to the crucial scenes maintained the suspension of disbelief that such a fantasy requires. That there are some transportation and action scenes with a pop beat do not undermine this, IMO.

I suppose that's where we fundamentally differ. I think when you're dealing with any fantastical genre, it's essential to suspend disbelief at ALL times, not just for crucial scenes. Otherwise, to me, the whole thing fails. But that's just a difference of opinion. To each his own.

In fact, it adds a rhythmic quality to the visuals that it wouldn't have had otherwise.

Would you mind clarifying a little? Are you suggesting that a traditional orchestra couldn't in any way give those scenes the needed pep? Not trying to bait you, just curious.

And it's experimental, which is a quality in itself.

I can't argue with that.

 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 11:24 AM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)



Also, having seen the comments that GNP got from there kick back cards that they included in this relesae, I can tell you that folks really like this score


You mean people who purchased the CD REALLY liked it ? Wow, what a surprise!

And yes, women really liked it, dont know why... A few female friends (and not all soundtrack fans) got this GNP CD. And it was quite expensive at the time.

About the big sales, I suppose the ALAN PARSONS credit is also responsible of that. Doesnt mean people like it as a FILM score necesaarily. As VANGELIS ones, for example.

I do like the music (even the pop parts), but I dont like it in the film. But I dont like film either, so...

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 12:03 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

By the way, I wonder if the people who react to LADYHAWKE also react to other films whose musical scores "clash" with the period they want to depict. I've already mentioned A KNIGHT'S TALE and IN THE NAME OF THE ROSE. Then there's Pasolini's GOSPEL OF ST. MATTHEW or various Shakespeare adaptations such as RICHARD III (with Ian McKellen) or TITUS. What's your take on these?

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Would you mind clarifying a little? Are you suggesting that a traditional orchestra couldn't in any way give those scenes the needed pep? Not trying to bait you, just curious.

Yes, an orchestra could certainly capture horseback riding (insert any given Western theme here) - or any of the other scenes for that matter. But pop has a more REGULAR beat that adds a whole other layer of vivacity to the proceedings. Guess it's the dynamic between the bass drum and high-hat that does it.

NP: "Sehnsucht" (Rammstein)

 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 12:44 PM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

McKellen's RICHARD III and Mrs Goldenthal's TITUS were not exactly "classic" adaptations (I saw motocycles and tanks!), so the music does not clash as much as in the old-fashioned tale LADYHAWKE.

 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 12:54 PM   
 By:   BlanketyBlank   (Member)

LADYHAWKE was a resolutely straightforward, traditional medieval fantasy film with great actors, an intelligent script, and lush photography. That is the foremost reason, in my mind, why the score is utterly inappropriate and sticks out like a sore thumb. Some can argue its being "daring" and "different" until the cows come home... but when the rest of a production is so completely straightforward (and amazingly well done at that), a musical score like the one they ended up with just kills it. It breaks the magical spell that everyone else worked so hard to create.

And as far as Ford's "reality injection" goes, I think album sales are somewhat beside the point here. I have no doubt that LADYHAWKE may have had a lot more mainstream music fans that most film scores, no doubt partially or completely due to the involvement of the very popular Alan Parsons Project (or Andrew Powell, same difference). I think GNP's album sales speak more to that fact than some kind of justification for how the score plays in the context of the movie - which is what this debate is about.

Besides, saying an album is one of GNP's biggest sellers is kind of like talking about which expensive cruise ship sinks the slowest. (See Ford, you're not the only one around here who can say prickish things for no good reason.)

 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 12:57 PM   
 By:   BlanketyBlank   (Member)

McKellen's RICHARD III and Mrs Goldenthal's TITUS were not exactly "classic" adaptations (I saw motocycles and tanks!), so the music does not clash as much as in the old-fashioned tale LADYHAWKE.

Excellently put.

 
 
 Posted:   May 11, 2006 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

... but when the rest of a production is so completely straightforward (and amazingly well done at that), a musical score like the one they ended up with just kills it. It breaks the magical spell that everyone else worked so hard to create.

Not for me, though. The magical spell that I got from some of the traditionally scored scenes still stick to my mind, especially the "almost touch" scene. The remaining pop tracks are just fun "ad hoc" experiences that stand out as interesting audiovisual experimentation in scenes that didn't matter that much.

 
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