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 Posted:   Oct 11, 2011 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Oscarilbo   (Member)

there goes my dream of a Tadlow´s complete re-recording of Gone with the Wind frown

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 12, 2011 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   MichaelM   (Member)

...but that will not happen in my lifetime as I would think Quo Vadis will be my last..... as these recordings just do not sell enough anymore to warrant the huge expense ! If I had saved all the money I had spent on these CDs I could have been quite well off......


James, this is incredibly sad news. To me, your recordings are the finest film music recordings since Charles Gerhardt, and it seemed like you made it your mission in life to record all my favorite epic scores from the '60s and for that I want to thank you.

Incidentally, my CD of The Fall of the Roman Empire just arrived. Your shipping service is top-notch too.

 
 Posted:   Jul 17, 2013 - 7:19 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)


No trouble with getting enough percussionists....I used 11 on Lawrence and 12 on Villa Rides. Having already recorded Conquest for Silva I would love to record more...but that will not happen in my lifetime as I would think Quo Vadis will be my last..... as these recordings just do not sell enough anymore to warrant the huge expense ! If I had saved all the money I had spent on these CDs I could have been quite well off......


Hi James -- So it turned out Taras Bulba was your last on the Tadlow label, and Quo Vadis went to Prometheus. Any chance that Luc might be a fan of Captain from Castile? The score would be AMAZING in a complete new recording. Probably make a ton of Newman converts...

Not that I'm complaining about the concentration on Goldsmith recordings, mind you.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 17, 2013 - 7:50 PM   
 By:   RM Eastman   (Member)


No trouble with getting enough percussionists....I used 11 on Lawrence and 12 on Villa Rides. Having already recorded Conquest for Silva I would love to record more...but that will not happen in my lifetime as I would think Quo Vadis will be my last..... as these recordings just do not sell enough anymore to warrant the huge expense ! If I had saved all the money I had spent on these CDs I could have been quite well off......


Hi James -- So it turned out Taras Bulba was your last on the Tadlow label, and Quo Vadis went to Prometheus. Any chance that Luc might be a fan of Captain from Castile? The score would be AMAZING in a complete new recording. Probably make a ton of Newman converts...

Not that I'm complaining about the concentration on Goldsmith recordings, mind you.

Yavar


I love Newman's music, but a huge investment in a score that could maybe muster up a 1000 sales does not qualify as a wise investment.

 
 Posted:   Jul 17, 2013 - 11:21 PM   
 By:   AMRA75   (Member)

You can still buy the original one (from SAE) so no one will record it. Not enough buyers.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 7:22 AM   
 By:   paul rossen   (Member)

You can still buy the original one (from SAE) so no one will record it. Not enough buyers.

And that release is just amazing!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 8:04 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Since the first recording of Mahler's First Symphony in the 1920s or so, we have had how many more? Fifty? Seventy-five? A hundred? There are new ones almost every year. All of them have sold more than a thousand copies. Some of them have sold many times that number. Meanwhile Alfred Newman's music, despite the free exposure of a movie seen by millions in 1947 and many millions more in telecasts over the years, has yet to catch on beyond a tiny coterie of soundtrack fans. These sobering facts are worth pondering. The analogy may not be exact. There are some good reasons for the disparity. But if we believe that Newman's score is genuinely great music, we have some explaining to do.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   waxmanman35   (Member)

You can still buy the original one (from SAE) so no one will record it. Not enough buyers.
And that release is just amazing!


I agree. With so many worthwhile film scores that no longer exist I'm always puzzled why people would want to expend the limited resources or chances available to record a score, when the original tracks not only survive but have been released on records. Wouldn't that be a terrible waste of opportunity?

One of the many virtues of Fitzpatrick's re-recordings were that many (if not all) were complete recordings of scores that were not complete in commercial releases and where the original tracks didn't survive.

I imagine that licensing and releasing original tracks as archival recordings can be done at the fraction of the price of a new re-recording. On that basis I'd prefer the former, hoping that re-recordings would cover material that has vanished. Of course, this is probably moot since it seems re-recording classic scores is a monetary sinkhole.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 11:47 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)



I agree. With so many worthwhile film scores that no longer exist I'm always puzzled why people would want to expend the limited resources or chances available to record a score, when the original tracks not only survive but have been released on records. Wouldn't that be a terrible waste of opportunity?


Well, the fact it's a recording from 1947 might have something to do with it.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 12:06 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Thanks, TerraEpon, that's it exactly. Plus there is at least one missing cue. Similar situation existed for The Adventures of Don Juan from just a year earlier, and I remember people were pretty happy when Tribute put that out!

All that said, I would usually prefer something that's otherwise lost to get a recording instead. I mean, at least Captain from Castile has something out there (in a great package). How about The Mark of Zorro then?

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 4:31 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Thanks, TerraEpon, that's it exactly. Plus there is at least one missing cue. Similar situation existed for The Adventures of Don Juan from just a year earlier, and I remember people were pretty happy when Tribute put that out!

Agreed. But we also can't ignore that Tribute currently (at least as of fairly recently) has no plans to do any more recordings. And Tadlow is concentrating on silver age Goldsmith. (Those delight me, don't get me wrong.) These recordings cost money, and have a very limited audience. So I'd buy a new recording of "Captain from Castile," but I don't expect it's going to happen.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 11:09 PM   
 By:   AMRA75   (Member)

And my point was not to say "we don"t need a rerecording", my point was : "a producer will do not a rerecording for soundtrack fans 'cause the original one is still available".

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 11:19 PM   
 By:   AMRA75   (Member)

And I don't remember who (I think it was James Fitzpatrick but I am not sure) says about Golden age composers that, from a financial point of view, only Rozsa can be worthy enough.
Of course, it is sad. I also dreamed that someone will do a complete rerecording about The mark of Zorro (that we don't have in original form) but... well, I don't have high expectations about that.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 11:57 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)



I agree. With so many worthwhile film scores that no longer exist I'm always puzzled why people would want to expend the limited resources or chances available to record a score, when the original tracks not only survive but have been released on records. Wouldn't that be a terrible waste of opportunity?


Well, the fact it's a recording from 1947 might have something to do with it.


Maybe for some. I suspect however that for many of the dwindling number of people who really appreciate Alfred Newman's work, the original recordings are of greater interest than an "interpretation" as suggested here. The SAE release is remarkable both musically and artistically; for music, art and liner notes, unquestionably the finest (and finest looking!) film music package in my collection. I will admit, if Charles Gerhardt came back from the Great Beyond and recorded the complete score, I'd probably pick that up too.

 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 3:15 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Film music is a sub genre of classical music, and is thus open to interpretation. I do not understand those who think that only the OST, no matter how drab and crappy it sounds, is the "real thing". These people have a limited understanding of living and breathing music IMO.

I wonder why no company has tried crowd funding as a means of financing new recordings yet. Maybe because there is no crowd for that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


I wonder why no company has tried crowd funding as a means of financing new recordings yet. Maybe because there is no crowd for that.


I've suggested it before. A few people have thought there'd be legal issues, but I don't see it given there's no ownership issues with a rerecording (as opposed to an OST)
As far as I know, it can't really hurt to try as the only loss if it's not successful would be the time putting together the campaign (I'll grant I'm no expert but all I've read says that no one looses any money if the goal is not met).

 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)


I wonder why no company has tried crowd funding as a means of financing new recordings yet. Maybe because there is no crowd for that.


I've suggested it before. A few people have thought there'd be legal issues, but I don't see it given there's no ownership issues with a rerecording (as opposed to an OST)
As far as I know, it can't really hurt to try as the only loss if it's not successful would be the time putting together the campaign (I'll grant I'm no expert but all I've read says that no one looses any money if the goal is not met).


Crowd funding was discussed in this lengthy thread.
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=1&threadID=83853&archive=0
It's also the thread in which James Fitzpatrick said he was done with losing £50,000 - £70,000 ($76,000 - $110,000) every year and that it was time to move on. Can't say I blame him.

 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 9:20 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Film music is a sub genre of classical music, and is thus open to interpretation. I do not understand those who think that only the OST, no matter how drab and crappy it sounds, is the "real thing". These people have a limited understanding of living and breathing music IMO...

Some of us like the way the music sounds and is used in the films for which they were written, and like to have recordings as close to what we heard in the theater as possible. The fact that some stores clump film music in with their classical stuff does not make it a "sub genre of classical music." It is its own genre. Some, like Alex North have called it "functional music," and as such it is very different from classical music in that it is created for a very specific and limited use. (Film music may utilize or borrow from the classics, or may be more like jazz, blues, rock, or atonal music rather than in any obvious way classical.)

We all like music to sound great, but when push comes to shove the quality of the music trumps the quality of the sound, if you catch my drift. Or so it is for me.

You said you don't understand, so I'm attempting here to explain it to you. I hope this helps.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 10:06 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

I think the writer meant to say that traditional symphonic film scoring, of which CAPTAIN FROM CASTILE, is a good example, is a subgenre of classical music. That is certainly correct. The fact that the composer works to dramatic rather than strictly musical specifications is no disqualifier. Think of opera and ballet. In those media, of course, the composer was usually calling the shots. But not always. Read about Tchaikovsky's dealings with Petipa. The composer went through exactly the kind of nipping and tucking that most film composers had to deal with. Yet nobody would deny the status of SLEEPING BEAUTY as classical music.

As for preferring soundtrack versions, it's an understandable desire. But, insofar as it limits one's appreciation for the music's potential, it's more of a nostalgia or souvenir phenomenon than a truly musical approach. Any composer will tell you that he would do things differently outside the movie scene context.

 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

I think the writer meant to say that traditional symphonic film scoring, of which CAPTAIN FROM CASTILE, is a good example, is a subgenre of classical music. That is certainly correct. The fact that the composer works to dramatic rather than strictly musical specifications is no disqualifier. Think of opera and ballet. In those media, of course, the composer was usually calling the shots. But not always. Read about Tchaikovsky's dealings with Petipa. The composer went through exactly the kind of nipping and tucking that most film composers had to deal with. Yet nobody would deny the status of SLEEPING BEAUTY as classical music.

As for preferring soundtrack versions, it's an understandable desire. But, insofar as it limits one's appreciation for the music's potential, it's more of a nostalgia or souvenir phenomenon than a truly musical approach. Any composer will tell you that he would do things differently outside the movie scene context.


I am less interested in debating whether film music is a "sub genre" of classical music (and you're certainly entitled to your opinion on that one) than I am in responding to the previous writer's assertion that he could not understand why anyone would be more interested in a less-than-fully dynamic original recording when a technically state-of-the-art "interpretation" of that same music could be had. I appreciate your point of view on that, and will accept your viewpoint that I am "limited" in my appreciation of film music's "potential." You're right. While I love and own a wide variety of music recordings, I like film music precisely because it is film music. The interpretation I am after is the composer's, for the purpose and in the context for which it was written, capturing the drama and emotions of the film's characters and events. Especially for those scores which for me accomplish those purposes most perfectly and appeal to me most directly, I really don't have a lot of interest in how others, or even the composer himself, might wish to reconfigure the music based on technical or performance considerations. There is more to it, but that's the essence of it. It is wholly subjective, and I'm just talking for me.

 
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