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I can see how that might bother some, Day, but I love those cues, with Horner riffing on that Paul Simon sound that was going around at the time. I also love the similar hurdy-gurdy vibe that he used in PROJECT X, so it's all okay for me. I don't really hate them, they're fine in themselves. It was just a shock. When I received this, I hadn't played any of the single cd in years( and doubley so, waiting for this ). So when they came up so early on it was a bit of a shock/ surprise.
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JH is quoting a classical piece in this score - not 1-by-1 but if you have heard it and know it you know the problem is that I do not remember what piece it is or the name does somebody know something? I have not heard the score since before 2008 and that was the OST so i cannot help with track location
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JH is quoting a classical piece in this score - not 1-by-1 but if you have heard it and know it you know the problem is that I do not remember what piece it is or the name does somebody know something? I have not heard the score since before 2008 and that was the OST so i cannot help with track location Which one? Note: before I post this list I'm a big Horner fan and am NOT trying to start something. I'm sure there's more. Willow, for being the score of Horner's I'm most likely to take to an island with me, is also one of his least original when it comes to themes and motifs. But damned if he didn't make it his own and make it engaging. I never once get pulled out of it. That is - that i cannot remember but i would really hear that piece again - the classical one - it might be a string quartet piece in style of some aggressive vivaldi - but i do not know I have never understand the Horner bashing when he takes from others I'd like that he actually made the classical ballet piece better in ALIENS than the original composition - there is just something in Horners version that is missing from the original pieces
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Posted: |
Mar 17, 2023 - 7:08 AM
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By: |
c8
(Member)
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I have never understand the Horner bashing when he takes from others I'd like that he actually made the classical ballet piece better in ALIENS than the original composition - there is just something in Horners version that is missing from the original pieces I know its a tired and creaky discussion but I agree. I think people who clutch their pearls when Horner lifts a Prokofiev motif or Williams a Sibelius theme would be agahst to learn how much folk, church, and other extant music exist in what we consider the original classics. And I COMPLETELY agree about what Horner did with the adagio from Gayenne. I know I just posted it in the American Tail thread and I bet you saw it there, but this interview (https://neumation-music.com/blogs/news/blog) with JAC Redford is so enlightening: He's taken a good deal of criticism over the years for reusing stuff and borrowing things. I think he lived in another era, you know, mentally, in some ways. It's only in relatively recent history that the idea of every piece of music having to be completely novel, and creative. I call it the cult of novelty. [Laughs] And the funny thing is, the more novel the pieces get the more they sound like each other, oddly enough. I mean, look at a lot of the stuff at the end of the twentieth century The idea of intellectual property and every idea having to be hyper-original is a distinctly American construct. Explaining plagiarism to a foreign student, as I often had to do when I was teaching, could be an exercise in futility.
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My problems with what Horner did are that he did it SO often on every score. And I could have dismissed that had he made them his own in original ways, but he often did not. That leads to my second reason, which is my main reason: he said in an interview years before his death (maybe it was that one where he tore in Yared on "Troy") that it was coincidental. Yes, he didn't do any of it on purpose and it just sounds the same. Never mind the same or near same tempos, never mind the identical writing and orchestration, it's all coincidental. He just flat out lied. All he had to do is be honest and admit it, but no, he couldn't do that.
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The idea of intellectual property and every idea having to be hyper-original is a distinctly American construct. Explaining plagiarism to a foreign student, as I often had to do when I was teaching, could be an exercise in futility. I have to agree with Justin here, even as a big Horner fan. It's just a simple matter of integrity. If you took inspiration or even outright borrowed, say so. As a random example, Sting (decidedly NOT AMERICAN) used part of the romance theme from KIJI in his song "Russians" and not only gave Prokofiev credit but even printed a notation of the section of score he used in the liner notes! Admittedly film composers might not have that kind of leeway in what is included in the liner notes but during interviews, if it comes up, it's certainly not a good look to outright lie. In any case, I think Horner was brilliant at placing film music. He knew how to marry music to film perfectly, even if it wasn't his own music. As a dyed-in-the-wool COMPOSER, my opinion of him is a little less praiseworthy.
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My problems with what Horner did are that he did it SO often on every score. And I could have dismissed that had he made them his own in original ways, but he often did not. That's actually where I would differ (somewhat): yes, you will find lots of "borrowings" in Horner's (or other composer's music), and I don't know how open Horner was or wasn't about it all the time (I sure heard him talk about using, recycling and returning to ideas, and how difficult that sometimes is in the copyright film world). But interestingly enough, it usually sounded like Horner and not like anyone else. It's as if whatever Horner plucked right and left was assimilated into his own very personal and pronounced style. WILLOW is a good example. Is there a thematic similarity to Schumann's 3rd Symphony? Sure, but I didn't even notice that until someone somewhere pointed it out (even though I was familiar with Schumann's 3rd Symphony long before WILLOW came even out). Willow sure sounds like Horner nevertheless, not like Schumann.
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He was a bit like the old guys from 40's(ish) in a way. They were always incorporating familiar tunes in their work. In westerns dixie or when Johnny came marching home were often slid in. Maritime films would slip in Rule Britannia in when appropriate, ie. when a British ship appeared or the word Portsmouth came on screen. Mighty Joe Young and beautiful dreamer. And so on. When I was a young pup of a sore fan I used to hate all that. They were so familiar to me. On the other hand Jimbo's classical rips (lifts/copies/adaptations) were less familiar and as a result less annoying. So there!
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