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 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 10:28 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Mixing of multitracks can be very tricky, it is almost impossible to obtain the same balance of the initial mixing (I was also disappointed with Conan The Barbarian and a few others), but in this case I think the new mix is very good, allowing new details to be perceived but not deviating from the original sound.

It doesn't sound anymore like an Eric Tomlinson recording, some instruments which were behind are now very frontal, with no real depth, as if the players were all in the same line, they play all louder, without dynamic nuances etc.

It couldn't deviate more from the original recording, and Eric Tomlinson certainly knew better the acoustics of the Denham studio and how to make it sounds.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 10:39 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Some people complain if it sounds different to the original mix, and would likely complain if it didn’t as they’d wasted their money!

I never complain when a mastering engineer make an Eric Tomlinson recording sounds like an Eric Tomlinson recording.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   ryanpaquet   (Member)

Back in stock over at LLL via Twitter 5 mins ago:

BACK IN STOCK NOW at http://lalalandrecords.com  ! #SUPERMAN 40th ANNIV. 3-CD Remastered Limited Edition

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 12:13 PM   
 By:   Halloween_Jack   (Member)

Some people complain if it sounds different to the original mix, and would likely complain if it didn’t as they’d wasted their money!

I never complain when a mastering engineer make an Eric Tomlinson recording sounds like an Eric Tomlinson recording.


You can still easily buy the Eric Tomlinson recording, it’s not been taken away from you...

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 1:00 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Like film prints, no two mixes are exactly alike

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 3:50 PM   
 By:   bcommunal   (Member)

Some people complain if it sounds different to the original mix, and would likely complain if it didn’t as they’d wasted their money!

I never complain when a mastering engineer make an Eric Tomlinson recording sounds like an Eric Tomlinson recording.


You can still easily buy the Eric Tomlinson recording, it’s not been taken away from you...


Sure, but as you know, the original album is not the complete score... I hope, one day, the original and complete mix by Eric Tomlinson will be available and well mastered like the Steve Hoffman version of Raiders of the Lost Ark (DCC records). Hoffman is a real great technician and was the mastering engineer of the first full digital recording of E.T. on cd (made in Japan by MCA) which still sounds fine and has a great dynamic range !

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 8:06 PM   
 By:   MartyM   (Member)

I am baffled by everything I have been reading in this thread for the past two days. It strangely contradicts the unanimous positive reception on the other Superman thread as well as all the external reviews from other websites I have read so far. My favorite post of the past two days is the one announcing that this release is back in stock! I will finally be able to purchase it and I am convinced that my ears will be able to hear music through all those details.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2019 - 8:58 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

You know we've officially gone the deep end when the name "Steve Hoffman" gets tossed around.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 12:44 AM   
 By:   bcommunal   (Member)

You know we've officially gone the deep end when the name "Steve Hoffman" gets tossed around.

I never would consider people, artists or technicians as "deep end", but as human being who sometimes take controversial decisions in making their job, as everybody on earth.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 1:12 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

You know we've officially gone the deep end when the name "Steve Hoffman" gets tossed around.

You should say that to Chris Malone, who has regularly said how much he loves Steve Hoffman's masterings of John Williams scores.

As far as dynamic range is concerned, it was unaltered in both editions of E.T. and Raiders of the Lost Ark that bcommunal mentionned.

"I too think that compression is unnecessary for orchestral recordings. Why remove the dynamics the composer/conductor and engineer worked so hard to capture in the first place! What I can't understand is why it seems to be used more than ever during mastering." (Chris Malone)

"As I say, I think it is one of the best presentations of an Eric Tomlinson recording from the late 1970s onwards." (Chris Malone, about the DCC edition of Raiders of the Lost Ark)

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 1:12 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

I think it is important to point out that the new edition is not overly compressed as it may appear from some posts.
In fact it is still in the “green” area at Dynamic Range Database, with the score on discs 1 and 2 having an average dynamic range of 12 with a maximum of 17. http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=Superman+


13,5 db instead of 20 db for the Main Theme is an important difference.

I don't have the values, but it sounds even more important in the Leaving Home cue.

I am for the preservation of film music.

Preservation means preservation, preservation of the full integrity of an original recording, incuding its dynamic range which is an essential and integral part of the music.

We can't talk anymore about preservation when a recording is altered during the remixing and/or the remastering process.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 2:44 AM   
 By:   Chris Malone   (Member)

I’d like to chime in with a few comments.

When I wrote my articles on Star Wars and Superman, I did so out of frustration and fandom. Frustration in that I felt the work of the engineer and composer weren’t being properly rendered for CD. Fandom in that I love these scores—the work of both the engineer and composer have shaped the trajectory of my life and career.

In expressing grievances over a decade ago, I did so with some knowledge—but not anywhere near the knowledge that I have accumulated in the intervening years by listening, discussing, and having the privilege of working on some soundtrack albums.

It’s amazing to think that if we want to listen to Superman, we have so many choices to dip into. And each have a different sonic character—the original WB album; the Rhino; the FSM; and now this latest release from La-La Land.

I rarely comment on releases these days because the Internet is forever.

But let me say this succinctly.

I’m thrilled with this new 40th anniversary Superman set from La-La Land! I think Mike did—and consistently does—a spectacular job.

This will be the edition I listen to.

Chris

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 3:04 AM   
 By:   Halloween_Jack   (Member)

As far as dynamic range is concerned, it was unaltered in both editions of E.T. and Raiders of the Lost Ark that bcommunal mentionned.

Not entirely true.

In an effort to make the CD release sound more like the vinyl, Mr Hoffman put that feed through a valve-based gizmo. Perhaps understandable in that era, when people were often complaining CD sounded too sharp and clinical (plus the Raiders masters are a little hot). Of course now that we have superb DACs Hoffman’s Raiders CD sounds exactly how it is, softened and a little diffuse, with slightly muted dynamics. Compare that to his DCC LP, which is absolutely first class as it came from a purer feed minus the manipulations for the CD version. The LP played on good quality gear ironically sounds far more dynamic and crisp than the CD.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 3:04 AM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

I’d like to chime in with a few comments.

When I wrote my articles on Star Wars and Superman, I did so out of frustration and fandom. Frustration in that I felt the work of the engineer and composer weren’t being properly rendered for CD. Fandom in that I love these scores—the work of both the engineer and composer have shaped the trajectory of my life and career.

In expressing grievances over a decade ago, I did so with some knowledge—but not anywhere near the knowledge that I have accumulated in the intervening years by listening, discussing, and having the privilege of working on some soundtrack albums.

It’s amazing to think that if we want to listen to Superman, we have so many choices to dip into. And each have a different sonic character—the original WB album; the Rhino; the FSM; and now this latest release from La-La Land.

I rarely comment on releases these days because the Internet is forever.

But let me say this succinctly.

I’m thrilled with this new 40th anniversary Superman set from La-La Land! I think Mike did—and consistently does—a spectacular job.

This will be the edition I listen to.

Chris


Here, Here ! I valued your opinion then, And I value your opinions today as well.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

As far as dynamic range is concerned, it was unaltered in both editions of E.T. and Raiders of the Lost Ark that bcommunal mentionned.

Not entirely true.

In an effort to make the CD release sound more like the vinyl, Mr Hoffman put that feed through a valve-based gizmo. Perhaps understandable in that era, when people were often complaining CD sounded too sharp and clinical (plus the Raiders masters are a little hot). Of course now that we have superb DACs Hoffman’s Raiders CD sounds exactly how it is, softened and a little diffuse, with slightly muted dynamics. Compare that to his DCC LP, which is absolutely first class as it came from a purer feed minus the manipulations for the CD version. The LP played on good quality gear ironically sounds far more dynamic and crisp than the CD.


Using tubes instead of transistors is not a gizmo. On a good CD player, the CD is also spectacular. I have both the LP and CD of the DCC edition. The better format will depend on the better source you have on your system.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 8:51 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

I’d like to chime in with a few comments.

When I wrote my articles on Star Wars and Superman, I did so out of frustration and fandom. Frustration in that I felt the work of the engineer and composer weren’t being properly rendered for CD. Fandom in that I love these scores—the work of both the engineer and composer have shaped the trajectory of my life and career.

In expressing grievances over a decade ago, I did so with some knowledge—but not anywhere near the knowledge that I have accumulated in the intervening years by listening, discussing, and having the privilege of working on some soundtrack albums.

It’s amazing to think that if we want to listen to Superman, we have so many choices to dip into. And each have a different sonic character—the original WB album; the Rhino; the FSM; and now this latest release from La-La Land.

I rarely comment on releases these days because the Internet is forever.

But let me say this succinctly.

I’m thrilled with this new 40th anniversary Superman set from La-La Land! I think Mike did—and consistently does—a spectacular job.

This will be the edition I listen to.

Chris


So welcome Chris !

All you said in your old articles are nothing but true.

Do you mean that you will now use compression on your future mastering jobs ?

Can you developp your position on how dynamic range compression can be "spectacular" and better than no compression, especially when you compare the result with the written score and all the dynamic nuances made by the composer ?

- Bruno

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 9:42 AM   
 By:   Halloween_Jack   (Member)

As far as dynamic range is concerned, it was unaltered in both editions of E.T. and Raiders of the Lost Ark that bcommunal mentionned.

Not entirely true.

In an effort to make the CD release sound more like the vinyl, Mr Hoffman put that feed through a valve-based gizmo. Perhaps understandable in that era, when people were often complaining CD sounded too sharp and clinical (plus the Raiders masters are a little hot). Of course now that we have superb DACs Hoffman’s Raiders CD sounds exactly how it is, softened and a little diffuse, with slightly muted dynamics. Compare that to his DCC LP, which is absolutely first class as it came from a purer feed minus the manipulations for the CD version. The LP played on good quality gear ironically sounds far more dynamic and crisp than the CD.


Using tubes instead of transistors is not a gizmo. On a good CD player, the CD is also spectacular. I have both the LP and CD of the DCC edition. The better format will depend on the better source you have on your system.


I use both a Benchmark DAC3 HGC and a Chord Hugo TT2. And I stand by my findings.

You’re also objectively wrong about the ‘gizmo’. Steve added it as a form of ‘sweetening’ or taming the CD issue, baring in mind the quality of many CD players (non audiophile) it would be played in during that era. Played today in a neutral and revealing system you can hear this colouration, particularly in comparison with the superbly dynamic and crisp sounding DCC LP which is a real masterpiece of a release.

But you are obviously entitled to your opposing opinion, and that’s to be respected smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

Jesus fucking Christ, some people really do live just to shit on the opinions of others, don't they?

At the end of the day we're talking about music for crying out loud. If you don't like the new version, cool. Listen to the old one. If you like the new one, cool. Listen to that. It's nothing that's actually important. Bullshit like this is what keeps so many people who work on these releases away from the boards here. Posts laden with ungrateful whining phrased and targeted as if you've been personally attacked.

Get. Over. It. There are real problems in the world.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 11:00 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

You’re also objectively wrong about the ‘gizmo’. Steve added it as a form of ‘sweetening’ or taming the CD issue, baring in mind the quality of many CD players (non audiophile) it would be played in during that era. Played today in a neutral and revealing system you can hear this colouration, particularly in comparison with the superbly dynamic and crisp sounding DCC LP which is a real masterpiece of a release.

It's the two-track tapes that were played through the "special vacuum tube insert stage" used by Steve Hoffman, so both the LP and CD benefited from it :

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/mastering-the-dcc-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-soundtrack.54426/

I was cutting an LP and stereo CD! I used the original two-track Abbey Road mixes, unissued at the time I think..

The tapes needed a bit of "taming". I did that with a special vacuum tube insert stage that added much needed "body" to the music (I thought).
(Steve Hoffman)

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   nz   (Member)

Uh,folks,in case you've all forgotten,La-La-Land and Warner Bros.DID release a deluxe 3-CD 40th anniversary set of "Superman" last year.It's still available and by far the best version of this Williams masterpiece.It's got the film's original 2-inch 24-track masters in a terrific high resolution transfer by Warner Sound,plus a boatload of alternate/additional cues(love "The Fortress Of Solitude"!) AND the complete original 1978 album rebuilt and remastered on Disc 3.Check it out!

 
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