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 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Jesus fucking Christ, some people really do live just to shit on the opinions of others, don't they?

At the end of the day we're talking about music for crying out loud. If you don't like the new version, cool. Listen to the old one. If you like the new one, cool. Listen to that. It's nothing that's actually important. Bullshit like this is what keeps so many people who work on these releases away from the boards here. Posts laden with ungrateful whining phrased and targeted as if you've been personally attacked.

Get. Over. It. There are real problems in the world.


Actually, I'd like to have the Eric Tomlinson recording and mixing which was preserved through the six-track tapes properly mastered.

I think that the music and the people who worked hard on it in 1978 deserve it. As bcommunal said, it was a unique and inspired moment, which is now historic.

Mike Matessino (and the people at La-La Land) also worked hard on the new edition, and I paid for their efforts, but it's just a different view on the music, not the unsurpassable edition he and everybody say.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2019 - 11:59 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Uh,folks,in case you've all forgotten,La-La-Land and Warner Bros.DID release a deluxe 3-CD 40th anniversary set of "Superman" last year.It's still available and by far the best version of this Williams masterpiece.It's got the film's original 2-inch 24-track masters in a terrific high resolution transfer by Warner Sound,plus a boatload of alternate/additional cues(love "The Fortress Of Solitude"!) AND the complete original 1978 album rebuilt and remastered on Disc 3.Check it out!

I have personnaly encouraged a friend of mine to buy it, because it's Superman, and because we won't have a new edition, if we ever have a new one, before a very long time.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 4:14 AM   
 By:   panavision   (Member)

The new CD sound is much more balanced than the 1978 mix, especially the volume between the quieter and louder sections.

The 1978 mix is available on previous releases if you want it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 6:01 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I am glad that they removed some more extreme dynamic range. It works when you are watching a movie in the theater, but otherwise it doesn't work with a modern recording.

I have to admit I don't get this statement at all. I cannot say anything about the LaLaLand release of SUPERMAN, since I don't own it, but some modern recordings have a great dynamic range and boost really impressive sonics. It sounds much more grand and spectacular to listen to orchestral music (like many classical recordings) when it does not have a loudness pushed flat tone-curve that practically eliminates the punch of recordings. When a crescendo is no longer a crescendo, because everything else is just about as loud, it just doesn't have the impact it should.

I take a higher dynamic range over the thin loudness re-mastering any day.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 6:01 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

The new CD sound is much more balanced than the 1978 mix, especially the volume between the quieter and louder sections.

The volume of the quieter sections have been raised. If by much more balanced you mean much more uniform, you're right.

If people like compression, that's fine, even Chris Malone seems to like it now. I'm glad, though, that he doesn't use compression for his own masterings when he has full freedom.

Using compression doesn't give justice to the music and all its richness and nuances.

The 1978 mix is available on previous releases if you want it.

I have 2 LP editions (US and Japan), the 1989 Warner Bros CD, the 2015 Warner Bros Japan CD reissue (which sounds a little better), the Rhino, the Blue Box and the La-La Land edition.

No compression, de-hissing or EQ in the WB editions, but not perfect, as everyone knows.

And the Rhino and the Blue Box use compression, de-hissing and EQ not for the best effect. But we can see all the wonderful ambience with the beautiful depth and perspective of Eric Tomlinson recording, even is the studio at Denham was not great.

I'll buy again a new edition with the six-track tapes properly remastered. Mike Matessino didn't use too much de-hissing and did minimal EQ this time for the La-La Land release, maybe that next time he will preserve the beautiful dynamic range of the original recording and mixing, since his very difficult work and goal is to "preserve" film music with the highest standards.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

If you can't hear the very quiet sections without turning up.the volume, that is EXTREME dynamic range and NOT good mixing.
Some recordings of " THE UNANSWERED QUESTION" have this problem. So, when the louder parts come in it is TOO DAMN LOUD and you have to turn the volume down.
A home recording needs some compression: a film recording does not.

Period.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

The more natural the dynamic range of an orchestral recording tends to be, the better it tends to sound on the whole. Like, for example, Abbado's LSO recording of Daphnis et Chloe, which sounds spectacularly good with its wide dynamic range. That's how it's supposed to sound!

A home recording needs some compression: a film recording does not.

Seems to me the other way around makes more sense. In a home recording, you can actually appreciate the full dynamic range a recording can offer, whereas in a film mix, the most subtle sounds may not be audible if there are any other sounds in the film mix, and a huge fortissimo (with chorus and organ) would call undue attention to itself. That's why film scores as edited into film are much more likely to be dynamically adjusted than an orchestral recording for home listening should be.

At home, you have a much better chance to appreciate the dynamic range. Not only that, but if a recording has full dynamic range, you can adjust the volume as you see fit (or even have your setup lower and raise the volume by itself if you so desire). There is no way you can get that if the dynamic range gets already compressed in the mix.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   CCW1970   (Member)

...not the unsurpassable edition he and everybody say.

Where did Matessino say this?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   Nils   (Member)

We can hear lots of details, for sure, but not music anymore.

Seriously? "not music any more"?

It's perfectly alright if you prefer the earlier releases, and people certainly have different preferences when it somes to sound, but saying that the sound on the La-La release makes it "not music any more"? That's just rude towards the people who put a lot of effort into making this release sound as good as, clearly, a lot of people think it does.

I prefer the clarity and presence of La-Las version over the distant and muffled sound on the original release, but there's no way I would call the original release "not music".

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 3:52 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

The NONO Nonsensical

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 8:06 PM   
 By:   Score Whore   (Member)

SIDE ONE
Theme From Superman (Main Title)
The Planet Krypton
Destruction Of Krypton
The Trip To Earth

SIDE TWO
Growing Up
Jonathan’s Death
Leaving Home
The Fortress Of Solitude

SIDE THREE
Lex Luthor’s Lair
The Helicopter Sequence
Super Rescues
The Flying Sequence & Can You Read My Mind

SIDE FOUR
To the Lair
Chasing Rockets
Superfeats
Turning Back The World
End Title

Here is how I would have liked the LP soundtrack to have been released back in 1978.

I would have replaced:

• Love Theme From Superman
• The March Of The Villains

with:

• Jonathan’s Death
• The Helicopter Sequence
• To the Lair

simply because the love theme is represented well in the Flying Sequence, and there’s enough of the villains’ theme in Lex Luthor’s Lair.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 8:35 PM   
 By:   Mose Harper   (Member)

As a kid, the re-contextualization of the LP track order threw me when I got a chance to see the film again in early spring as it was winding down it's run.

I stayed for the full end credits this time and the delicate love theme that comes in after the march in the end credits just blew me away. Where did this piece of music come from!?! So beautiful.
I must have spun the album twenty or thirty times by that point, but since it didn't follow the end titles on the album, I thought they had just left it out.

As far as the sound quality/mastering of the new LLL- I can hear what Nono is saying. I'm sure it's possible the range could have been expanded a little more without injurious effect, but at the same time I can't say it really bothers me as it. Like many, I've owned this on multiple formats and releases down through the years.
When I first listened to the LLL, I put it on as background noise while I multi-tasked.
It wasn't long before I had to stop what I was doing and close my eyes and lose myself in a reverie. My reaction to this music hasn't been that visceral since I was a kid.

Theoretically everything could be improved. But I have absolutely no complaints to what's here and am simply enormously appreciative to everyone involved for reigniting my intense love for something that I'd long since come to take for granted.

I recently downloaded the Gerad Schurmann release and that has the widest dynamic range of anything I've ever heard. Frankly, although the music is wonderful, it's a horribly frustrating release to try to listen to on my system.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 9:16 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Critics look at each film as a one off and don't usually care if it honors the spirit and legacy of the character.

I don't think that's true.

I also find it odd that you think "critics" are some unified force, when there are film critics of all stripes.


Maybe Schiffy. leaving the board wasn't such a.bad idea, after all!



wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 9:33 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Has Morbidbond left yet?

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 9:45 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I'm suffering from ' compression fatigue'.

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 9:46 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Who the heck is Gerad Shurmann?

 
 Posted:   Jun 21, 2019 - 11:11 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

I am glad that they removed some more extreme dynamic range. It works when you are watching a movie in the theater, but otherwise it doesn't work with a modern recording.

I have to admit I don't get this statement at all. I cannot say anything about the LaLaLand release of SUPERMAN, since I don't own it, but some modern recordings have a great dynamic range and boost really impressive sonics. It sounds much more grand and spectacular to listen to orchestral music (like many classical recordings) when it does not have a loudness pushed flat tone-curve that practically eliminates the punch of recordings. When a crescendo is no longer a crescendo, because everything else is just about as loud, it just doesn't have the impact it should.

I take a higher dynamic range over the thin loudness re-mastering any day.


Where did I suggest there was no dynamic range on the new release? There absolutely is. It just isn't 90s release of Jurassic Park or Legends of the Fall level of lows and highs. I am in favor of dynamic range but not at those extremes.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2019 - 2:27 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

The NONO Nonsensical

I'm really sorry for you if you can't hear all the dynamic nuances which make music :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music)

Ignorance is bliss.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2019 - 2:42 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

My strong preference is for the dynamic range to NOT be too big. I HATE having to turn up the soft parts and turn down the loud parts.

In the car, a big range means not being able to hear the soft parts at all. And with earbuds, it means the loud parts are going to suddenly hurt my ears.

So, if anything, this complaint about "compression" is one more reason for me to like the new LLL set.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2019 - 2:51 AM   
 By:   Halloween_Jack   (Member)

Best thing is to just ignore the Nono. The only opinions he listens to are evidently his own.

Off to spin the 40th Anniversary Supes once again and enjoy hearing this score anew!

Definitely my favourite release of the year so far (and I’ll be very surprised if that isn’t still the case come December!).

Bravo and thanks again to Mr Matassino on all his efforts in nailing this one!

 
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