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That's my favorite cue/theme of the score as well!
Yavar
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Now, ah ain't agonna' make no judgments heah, y'all .... Ah is jest drawin' yer attention to the fact that there is some mighty enthusiastic folk out theah aplayin' around with that there theme y'is all pinin' fer:
https://youtu.be/CHq-yWrSB9E
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My copy of THE BIG COUNTRY book just dropped through the letterbox and has been put aside for Christmas morning.
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The most inventive fight scene is that wherein Terrill's retributional raiders take the Hannassays into the barn and administer a 'lickin', whilst Buck hides in the buckboard.
In days when graphic violence wasn't tolerated, the imagination fills in the gaps with projection. We only hear the punches, but the camera humorously stays put in an almost Kubrick fashion. The violence is only suggestive and we are the voyeurs.
This is akin to 'Shane', where the fistfight near the end is perceived through the alarmed legs of horses.
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Posted: |
Dec 11, 2016 - 8:46 AM
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By: |
joan hue
(Member)
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Hey Dana, I never did think that a song could be made from this score, and it is hard to hear the lyrics with that youtube. However, songs were made from titles like Gunfight at OK Corral and War Wagon. Kind of liked those two songs, but not connecting to this Big Country song.
Sad that this score didn’t win the Oscar because it certainly was Oscar worthy. As another poster said, Wyler probably didn’t try to garner support for the score. It is well-known that Tiomkin did push needed buttons in Hollywood in support of his Old Man And The Sea score. The author of this book mentions this, and her contention is that The Big Country was more memorable and the stood the test of time better than Tiomkin’s score. I’m a big Tiomkin score fan, and I know many of you like this Oscar winning score, but this is one Tiomkin score that never resonated with me. Not sure why. I’d have given the Oscar to Moross for such a grand, memorable score.
Finally it is easy for me to spot Bernstein’s signature styles in most of his westerns. After The Big Country, I could certainly spot Moross’s western styles in The Jayhawkers and in The Valley of Gwangi.
On the other hand, he sounded so different in the lovely score for The Cardinal.
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Posted: |
Dec 11, 2016 - 9:33 AM
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By: |
townerbarry
(Member)
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Re: Western "genre expectations." I think that even more than the expectation that a "Shoot 'Em Up" movie will contain a certain amount of violent action is the expectation that the hero will be participating in it. . . . The virtue and strength of THE BIG COUNTRY is in the way Peck's protagonist sticks to his principles right up to the very last frame.
But the movie does give us a protracted fist fight. And while it is filmed with inventive use of the wide screen (surely an influence on David Lean), the fight scene does conform to genre convention by having the bare-knuckled participants receive an alarming series of devastating blows -- enough to put most men into traction and oral surgery -- and emerge with only a cut lip (in Heston's case).
This is incorrect Info. David Lean had already Filmed in CinemaScope with The Bridge on the River Kwai...In 1957 with Great Jack Hildyard Oscar winning Cinematography.
The Big Country was released a Year Later in 1958. Which was also filmed in CinemaScope.
I too like Moross's score. IT is BIG...lol Country.
Big Country was nominated for only two Oscars, Score and Best Supporting Actor...Burl Ives...which he won.
Yes, Gregory Peck, who was also the Producer of The Big Country along with William Wyler, was unhappy with Wyler's Direction on some of the some Scenes of The Big Country.
Some Info about The Big Country....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjLga73x-zQAhXkiVQKHY2QA0gQFggzMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gvnews.com%2Fget_out%2Fhollywood-at-home-big-challenges-filming-the-big-country%2Farticle_8b29b562-f8af-11e3-a86e-001a4bcf887a.html&usg=AFQjCNElnr1aVhjsFp0s1FFrurc3-9xnRg&sig2=FtiraxQ_v7OqzrBhFPc9cA
But Donald Hamilton’s novel proved hard to adapt and problems began as soon as work started on the screenplay. At least six different screenwriters worked on the project, resulting in a script that was too long and unsatisfactory to Wyler and Peck.
However the shooting schedule couldn’t be changed without losing major talent to other projects, so filming had to begin. This meant Peck and the screenwriters huddled over the script after each day’s filming. On many mornings the actors would arrive on set to find that lines and sometimes entire scenes were completely different from what they had memorized the night before.
Actress Jean Simmons in particular found this a challenge. She was so traumatized by the experience, she refused to talk about the movie until an interview in the late '80s when she revealed, “We'd have our lines learned, then receive a rewrite, stay up all night learning the new version, then receive yet another rewrite the following morning. It made acting damned near impossible.”
One of the most unfortunate disputes on the movie was the falling out between Wyler and Peck. The two had numerous disagreements over different aspects of the film. The final straw came when Peck watched dailies of a completed scene and wanted to reshoot his close-up. Wyler refused. Peck was so incensed he walked off the set and only his agent’s coaxing was able to bring him back. The relationship soured so severely that the two men refused to speak to each other for the rest of the shoot.
Two years later, Wyler and Peck finally patched up their relationship backstage at the 1960 Academy Awards when Peck congratulated Wyler on his directing Oscar for “Ben-Hur.” When they shook hands, Wyler reportedly said, "Thanks, but I still won’t retake that buckboard scene."
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Joan -- Second the motion on "choreography." I've also found that feeling in many parts of SPARTACUS, another score by an American composer well-versed in dance music.
***
Thanks, Townerbarry, for filling in a lot of the blanks in the behind-the-scenes saga. (I've always loved the story about the buckboard dispute and its aftermath.)
That said, I think you may have mis-interpreted one point. Eloquent John doesn't need me to speak for him, but in fairness to him I think, in his comments about Wyler, Lean and wide screen, he wasn't referring to the mere fact of wide screen cinematography but in the USE of it. In the case of THE BIG COUNTRY's fist fight, the director's long-distance camera angles effectively commented on the comparative smallness of the human squabble being played out amidst all that dwarfing scenery, that "big country," if you will. That, and the punchline of the whole scene -- when Peck asks Heston, what did they prove? -- are an example of how THE BIG COUNTRY thwarts genre expectations even when presenting the expected action/violence.
***
John -- Oh, go ahead, mention Jarre's COLLECTOR. I've always loved it, but you...?
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Thanks, Joan, you're very kind, but I'm not the first to make that particular observation, so I'll accept points for eloquence but not for originality. Meanwhile, thanks for joining me in encouraging more eloquence AND originality from John.
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I love Ives's Oscar-winning portrayal. I've always thought he must have been overjoyed to read the script and discover the richness of his dialogue. "Well, if this isn't a frosty Friday..." "Teach your grandmother to suck eggs..." etc., etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQ7ELCBrcE
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) Makes sense when you realize Moross had a background in theater and ballet compositions.
