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 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 8:59 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

Okay, yes, maybe those things are true, joan. But I understand completely where solium and others are coming from. In this climate of SJWs gone mad, Toprak’s placement on Captain Marvel feels equivalent to stunt casting, as if she was hired—to appropriate a phrase used earlier in this thread—not for the music she writes but for her biological attributes.

Some people got upset over Rupert Gregson-Williams composing the score for Wonder Woman rather than a female composer. Why? He wrote an incredible score for that film (IMHO) and arguably was the best composer for the job. So Wonder Woman got it right in my opinion. Hire the best person for the job, regardless of “what’s between their legs.”

Is Toprak the best composer for Captain Marvel? Maybe. She very well could be. I’m not saying she’s not. But why not hire her for Ant-Man? Or Doctor Strange? Or Guardians of the Galaxy? That’s why this feels like stunt casting. Because we live in an SJW-mad world and the female composer (or female director or female whatever) has to be given the female-led superhero movie. It would certainly feel like less of a stunt if the boys were making the girls movies and the girls were making the boys movies, would it not?

(Shirley Walker, as others have mentioned, is a great example of a massively talented composer who made a career out of writing stuff for the boys—Batman, Superman, etc.—without gender, so far as I’m aware, being a factor.)

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:00 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I want to thank David Coscina for his praise of Nan Schwartz.
She deserves it.
Bruce

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:03 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Feminists/SJW's say the sex doesn't matter, then they are hired based on sex. You can't have it both ways. Look, good for her, I don't know this composers work and hope she churns out a great score. But it's funny how people cant see the cynicism.

This bothers me too, though maybe not quite in the same way. Over a quarter century ago, Shirley Walker was hired on the basis of her talent (and almost certainly in spite of being a woman, not because of it) to score Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. For women to really be getting equal opportunities, they should not have to be hired primarily by female directors for female-led films.

It feels like this is in some ways token identity politics in Hollywood, a step back from the achievements Walker managed to make in the male-dominated industry. BUT I would rather a talented female composer get this opportunity from a female director on a female-led film, than NOT...which has been the status quo for so long.

It's not exactly the step forward I would hope for...which would be Walker protege Lolita Ritmanis getting the gig to score the next Batman film, if I'm being honest. smile

What I will hope, however, is that Pinar proving herself on this assignment will achieve something similar to Patty Jenkins proving herself as an awesome action director on Wonder Woman -- the industry will hopefully sit up and take notice despite the initial "token" nature of the gig, and maybe in another decade or so have moved forward to the point where more female composers are in the industry, and scoring as wide a variety of projects as men are given the opportunity to do, because of their talent.

Yavar

P.S. Right on, NeoNato & mastadge.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

Well put, Yavar. Ritmanis bagging a live-action Batman film would be incredible.

But of course, in our current environment, the best she could expect would be an assignment on some “Girls of Gotham” movie.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:07 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

Tango, I do understand what you are saying about "stunt casting." I do. I also get solium's comments. I just wanted to point out equal opportunities, and it has to have some kind of beginning or genesis.


It would certainly feel like less of a stunt if the boys were making the girls movies and the girls were making the boys movies, would it not

Okay, I get it, but "boys (men) have been making girls movie" for decades.

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

Like Walker, director Kathryn Bigelow carved out an outstanding career as an action director in a male dominated field to very little fanfare. She continued to flourish not because it was vogue or a novelty but on the merit of her artistic vision and skills. Granted there are MANY women are very talented but are those ones getting the gigs? This is a tough subject because there are so many factors that we can discuss.

I wish Ms Toprak the best in this assignment. I hope she knocks it out of the park and I will try to avoid holding her up to the same yardstick as Walker or Schwartz because that’s like expecting any modern composer, male or female, to possess that level of craftsmanship

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

The false narratives, especially from one particular forum member, are just outstanding inept -- you really have to do some mental gymnastics to get to places like those.

Once again, people should be hired on their abilities, not based on the color of their skin, the genitals they have, the religion they practice, etc.


On the idea of abilities, it's sad to see certain composers get hired over and over again, cranking out mediocre to awful to remarkably awful scores, while more talented ones fall by the wayside. Some names suggested elsewhere in the thread are talented people who don't get the work or praise they deserve in the industry: Debbie Wiseman, Nan Schwartz, Lolita Ritmanis.

Though, quite frankly, I think all three would be wasted on such a film. If it's not temp track-it is, it's always another thing; I have yet to hear a truly remarkable score from any of these Marvel films. And most fall into a category which would only cause arguments here if I named it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:20 AM   
 By:   KeoNato   (Member)

Like Walker, director Kathryn Bigelow carved out an outstanding career as an action director in a male dominated field to very little fanfare.

Again — I don’t understand this notion that they should just be quiet about it. She posted something on her Instagram about it.

Should she not?

And for people lamenting the way Walker did it “back in the day” — we’re almost 30 years from the 90’s and it’s still a very lopsided industry. Maybe that wasn’t the best approach.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)


It would certainly feel like less of a stunt if the boys were making the girls movies and the girls were making the boys movies, would it not

Okay, I get it, but "boys (men) have been making girls movie" for decades.


You’re right of course. There’s a history of male dominance in the entertainment industry that can’t be ignored. The real point in what I was saying was that it wouldn’t feel like a stunt if women like Toprak were already being given the more male-centric properties to work on. I don’t think it was inherently good that RGW, being a man, was hired to compose WW. I think it was good that he produced a fantastic score for that film and was obviously hired because someone thought he was genuinely, artistically, the best composer for the project.

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:23 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

@ Joan and Mastadge - I get you’re point and don't necessarily disagree. But how many “men” are composing film scores? It’s all going to a select few. Giacchino, Zimmer, Tyler Bates, Ramin Djawadi. How about opportunities for minority men and women? The issue is a bit more convoluted.

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:27 AM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

Once again, people should be hired on their abilities, not based on the color of their skin, the genitals they have, the religion they practice, etc.

And I'm pretty sure the incredibly risk-averse Disney did not hire her despite a lack of ability. It's not as if they gave her the job blind (or deaf, as the case may be). Obviously what they're looking for may not be what you're looking for, but then, not much seems to fit the description of what you're looking for.

As for the others, I love Debbie Wiseman and would love to see her get bigger projects. Is she looking for them? She seems to have quite a lot of work from BBC; maybe she's comfortable where she is and not exactly auditioning for Hollywood jobs?

Similarly for Lolita Ritmanis: she seems to be solidly employed in TV. Maybe she's happy with what she's doing?

I don't know, I'm not at all alleging that the above is the case, but is it possible that the reason we don't see some talented people on big prestige projects is not because they're being skipped over but because they're not auditioning for those projects?

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:32 AM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

Once again, people should be hired on their abilities, not based on the color of their skin, the genitals they have, the religion they practice, etc.

And I'm pretty sure the incredibly risk-averse Disney did not hire her despite a lack of ability. It's not as if they gave her the job blind (or deaf, as the case may be). Obviously what they're looking for may not be what you're looking for, but then, not much seems to fit the description of what you're looking for.

As for the others, I love Debbie Wiseman and would love to see her get bigger projects. Is she looking for them? She seems to have quite a lot of work from BBC; maybe she's comfortable where she is and not exactly auditioning for Hollywood jobs?

Similarly for Lolita Ritmanis: she seems to be solidly employed in TV. Maybe she's happy with what she's doing?

I don't know, I'm not at all alleging that the above is the case, but is it possible that the reason we don't see some talented people on big prestige projects is not because they're being skipped over but because they're not auditioning for those projects?


You hit the nail on the head. It's very possible that this project was offered to bigger name female composers who passed on it for a variety of reasons we will never know. Same goes for Wonder Woman (*though I will disagree with one of the previous posts that RGW delivered a great score- it was serviceable at best within the context of the movie to my ears).

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I don't know, I'm not at all alleging that the above is the case, but is it possible that the reason we don't see some talented people on big prestige projects is not because they're being skipped over but because they're not auditioning for those projects?

Come on now, reasonable thought like that has no place in the realm of genital-based hiring and discussion!

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   bagby   (Member)

Same goes for Wonder Woman (*though I will disagree with one of the previous posts that RGW delivered a great score- it was serviceable at best within the context of the movie to my ears).

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that...while it's way better than anything I could ever do, I find much of RGW's output and efforts to be pedestrian. HGW, on the other hand, impresses me, often.

Here's hoping Ms. Toprak writes an effective and terrific score. I hope she's tremendously successful.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   bagby   (Member)

I don't know, I'm not at all alleging that the above is the case, but is it possible that the reason we don't see some talented people on big prestige projects is not because they're being skipped over but because they're not auditioning for those projects?

Come on now, reasonable thought like that has no place in the realm of genital-based hiring and discussion!


Or they were approached and turned it down due to other work and deadlines, or their fee schedule exceeded budgets, or....who knows?

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:47 AM   
 By:   La La Land Records   (Member)

Composer of Fortnite, one of the biggest video games in the market? CHECK
Composer of Krypton, hit comic book SyFy television series coming back for second season? CHECK

Seems like qualifications to me, not too mention Richard Kraft is her agent.

If she is good enough to score music for Clark's grandpappy, she is good enough to score CAPTAIN MARVEL.

MV

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Yes, there are literally a dozen or more critical thinking approaches.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   jwb   (Member)

Composer of Fortnite, one of the biggest video games in the market? CHECK
Composer of Krypton, hit comic book SyFy television series coming back for second season? CHECK

MV


She has credits, sure. But IMHO, I've heard these two you mentioned and both sound fairly generic.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

Composer of Krypton, hit comic book SyFy television series coming back for second season? CHECK

I had no idea she was scoring Krypton (though I had noticed on IMDB she had contributed additional music to Justice League). I’ve been meaning to check Krypton out. Now here’s one more incentive to do so!

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2018 - 9:57 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I think someone here in another thread described her "Krypton" music as generic droning. A far cry from the original composer hired, Bear McCreary.

 
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