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Posted: |
Apr 15, 2019 - 5:22 PM
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By: |
Dana Wilcox
(Member)
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I think some of you guys have been unnecessarily rude towards number 6 over a question which probably does have more merit to it, when you think about it, than listing all your soundtracks that begin with every letter in the alphabet.
The famous Hitchcock - Raksin anecdote is interesting, and funny - but the question is why did an intelligent director like Hitchcock ask this question ? In the excellent interviews that Hitchcock did with Truffaut, Hitch said that the reason he had no music was that did not want the audience to think anything outside the boat. This, and the anecdote, suggest that Hitch thought that music could take the audiences mind away from the action on the boat and back to the real world, and that audiences could ask themselves the very question that Number 6 asked. For a director like Hitch, who I think was very much in tune with what his audience thought and wanted, to question the use of music in certain situations, and, perhaps, locations.....such as the middle of an ocean, or outer space, is worth thinking about, perhaps spending some time discussing....and that Number 6's suggestion that this is perhaps more interesting than comparing the size of ones collection through naming all your scores beginning with A, is maybe justifiable. Either way, abusing someone a contributing member on this forum who has the same love of film music is below the belt, in my opinion - ok you may think the question is stupid -well then explain why, and lets discuss it.
If these questions truly engage you, then by all means you and Number 6 should have a serious discussion about them. Likely he has more, possibly even more profound questions he would like to ponder with you.
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From where this music is supposed to be coming from
From the speakers.
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For a director like Hitch, who I think was very much in tune with what his audience thought and wanted, to question the use of music in certain situations, and, perhaps, locations.....such as the middle of an ocean, or outer space, is worth thinking about, perhaps spending some time discussing....and that Number 6's suggestion that this is perhaps more interesting than comparing the size of ones collection through naming all your scores beginning with A, is maybe justifiable.
Sure, in fact, I think this IS a valid question... I became aware of film music watching an old episode of Bonanza as a child and wondered where the music was coming from.
But this is a question that goes to the essence of what dramatic underscoring is (be it in a Wanger opera or a movie is really the same). So I think basically everyone knows that dramatic underscore is not heard by any of the people on screen in the action, it's part of the presentation of the dramatic narrative, it's not part of the on screen action.
Just like there are no jump cuts or zooms or flashbacks or narrators or text overlays like "Friday, December the eleventh, two forty-three p.m." in our everyday lives, there is no dramatic underscore warning us that we should not enter the building because there is a knife-wielding nut job in there lurking for us.
I unserstand the premise of not using music (like Hitchcock did -- very well -- in THE BIRDS), because you don't need music everywhere, but I also think it is obvious that dramatic underscore is "not really there". I think a more obvious question would be where the "sounds" of exploding spaceships are supposed to be coming from, because this sound is usually implied to be diegetic, but if you think about it, tends to function as music more than as sound (as there is no actual sound to be heard).
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I am just watching 'Alien' with an optical matt shot of a meteor holding the entire London Symphony Orchestra with Goldsmith conducting the opening credits approaching the Mother Ship, This seems a more realistic approach to appreciating film music.
Must have been a dubbed version, as in the original cut, it was the Lionel Newman conducting the National Philharmonic Orchestra. ;-)
The next film that I would love to see with a full orchestra in the background is, 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'
Here's to HALLOWEEN.... John Carpenter stalking both Jamie Lee Curtis and Michael Myers while playing the Halloween Theme music on a keyboard would make the movie even scarier. :-)
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It's not about the gallop of the horse, it's about the fear of the rider.
WHO IS NUMBER ONE?!
Pfft, durr.
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From where this music is supposed to be coming from ?
In "Blazing Saddles" the music is coming from Count Basie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2xYaL_Mheg
I couldn't find the scene from "High Anxiety," where it turns out to be an orchestra heard rehearsing on a passing tour-bus.
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Posted: |
Apr 16, 2019 - 11:09 AM
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By: |
AHerrera83
(Member)
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Regardless of Number 6’s intentions or if this subject has been discussed before, the question is very valid. In his essay Film Music and Narrative Agency, Jerrold Levinson poses that very question and, in essence, attributes this non-diegetic music to either the film’s narrator or its implied filmmaker (which is a different entity from the narrator).
The obvious answer is no, the music is not present in the “Film Story” (its diegesis). But it is crucial for the “Film’s World” (the narration). The easiest cue to explain this is Williams’s two-note motif for Jaws. Of course the music is not there on Amity Island, but it is the only reliable narrative element to let the viewers know when the shark is really present. Levinson argues that if a particular element allows the viewer to perceive a narrative truth, then the viewer assigns its presence to someone presenting that narration (you can’t have a narration without a narrator).
Now, as for the “implied filmmaker” we can take another cue from Jaws. Remember when Spielberg uses Hitchcock’s Vertigo shot? Williams referenced Bernard Herrmann’s dropping chord for the shot, clearly indicating that this moment was a homage to Hitchcock/Herrmann by Spielberg/Williams. The music here is not serving any narrative purpose, it is making an external reference to the cinematic art/process.
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Posted: |
Apr 16, 2019 - 9:21 PM
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By: |
NUMBER 6
(Member)
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Regardless of Number 6’s intentions or if this subject has been discussed before, the question is very valid. In his essay Film Music and Narrative Agency, Jerrold Levinson poses that very question and, in essence, attributes this non-diegetic music to either the film’s narrator or its implied filmmaker (which is a different entity from the narrator).
The obvious answer is no, the music is not present in the “Film Story” (its diegesis). But it is crucial for the “Film’s World” (the narration). The easiest cue to explain this is Williams’s two-note motif for Jaws. Of course the music is not there on Amity Island, but it is the only reliable narrative element to let the viewers know when the shark is really present. Levinson argues that if a particular element allows the viewer to perceive a narrative truth, then the viewer assigns its presence to someone presenting that narration (you can’t have a narration without a narrator).
Now, as for the “implied filmmaker” we can take another cue from Jaws. Remember when Spielberg uses Hitchcock’s Vertigo shot? Williams referenced Bernard Herrmann’s dropping chord for the shot, clearly indicating that this moment was a homage to Hitchcock/Herrmann by Spielberg/Williams. The music here is not serving any narrative purpose, it is making an external reference to the cinematic art/process.
My intention was simple: i wanted to know how we react to film music. But people don t read very well the post and are very fast to make a fool of the one that wrote it. As if i don t know anything on film music and Hitchcock story !
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Posted: |
Apr 16, 2019 - 9:38 PM
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By: |
NUMBER 6
(Member)
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As to the "I have 1000 CDs" - who gives a crap? I have over 8,000 CDs - ooh, I'm either special or insane.
Or trying to win having the most soundtracks when you die.
Considering the other thread we now have from "NUMBER 6," there is no doubt about it. We been punked. Thread and all future NUMBER 6 stupid threads should be ignored.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!
I said i had those 1000 cds because members react exactly as if i don t like or know the passion of film music. Read all the words in one post instead of ...
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Posted: |
Apr 17, 2019 - 12:23 PM
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By: |
NUMBER 6
(Member)
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I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!
I said i had those 1000 cds because members react exactly as if i don t like or know the passion of film music. Read all the words in one post instead of ...
Coming into a forum and being demanding in a topic title -- in all caps on top of that -- is hardly a way of making a good first impression.
in all caps on top of that:
i did it this way as if it was the actor of the series was speaking and it was this way NUMBER 6 would do it !
anyway, i had the same treatment as if my question would have been:
HEY LOSERS, FILM MUSIC SUCKS, AND SOUNDTRACKS COLLECTORS SUCKS, GET A LIFE !
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I'm at risk of offending Number 6 if this is not the case, but from his writing style I'm not sure english is his first language. Is that true, 6? Or, if it is perhaps his way of trying to get his point across isn't as clear as he might like. In any case, it behooves us on this board, in my opinion, to give our fellow posters a little more benefit than doubt. Hey, I'm not always the most patient person in the room either but I really do believe 6's intents herein have been seriously misread. C'mon, folks, we all have our way of saying what we're trying to say, and sometimes what seems like the most obvious question of all can be the one that takes us in interesting directions of discussion. I think that has been pointed out in a few of the posts here.
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Posted: |
Apr 17, 2019 - 1:02 PM
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By: |
NUMBER 6
(Member)
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I'm at risk of offending Number 6 if this is not the case, but from his writing style I'm not sure english is his first language. Is that true, 6? Or, if it is perhaps his way of trying to get his point across isn't as clear as he might like. In any case, it behooves us on this board, in my opinion, to give our fellow posters a little more benefit than doubt. Hey, I'm not always the most patient person in the room either but I really do believe 6's intents herein have been seriously misread. C'mon, folks, we all have our way of saying what we're trying to say, and sometimes what seems like the most obvious question of all can be the one that takes us in interesting directions of discussion. I think that has been pointed out in a few of the posts here.
I speak french and i live in Canada but where did i say something wrong ?
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