 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nicholas Myer said that his take on Star Trek was that he saw it as "Captain Horatio Hornblower in space", that it was basically an old naval adventure set in the future.
That wasn't Meyer's characterization, but Gene Roddenberry's (along with "'Wagon Train' to the stars") when he was still trying to sell the series to a network (first CBS, then NBC) in the early 1960s.
https://www.ctvscifi.ca/nicholas-meyer-star-trek-interview-tiff/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Apr 7, 2020 - 6:50 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Solium
(Member)
|
When I listen to Goldsmith's initial take on Star Trek, the couple of cues he recorded but was asked to change, what strikes me about it is that the original theme sounds much more like an old fashioned nautical adventure. He was making a musical connection between the idea of old naval sailing ships and the imagery of space ships. That parallels his Klingon music, which similarly sounds like vikings. When he redid the theme to make it more catchy, it lost a lot of that flavor, becoming more of a "happy military' theme.
Nicholas Myer said that his take on Star Trek was that he saw it as "Captain Horatio Hornblower in space", that it was basically an old naval adventure set in the future. Which I think is precisely what Goldsmith had been going for. So I think they would have clicked just fine. He probably would have composed something like the initial theme, creating a more historical sound. Not likely very synth heavy.
I totally agree!
It always struck me as funny and upsetting and perplexing, when in the STAR TREK TMP audio commentary with the Editor of the Film and Robert Wise talking about "Oh no, what are we going to do about the music? It sounds like Conistoga Wagons, It sounds like SAILING SHIPS!" And I always though YES, SAILING SHIPS is Good, SAILING SHIPS IN SPACE. SPACE SAILING SHIPS He NAILED IT! That editor always bugged me the way he spoke, like Goldsmith was SO FAR off! Stupid!
That wasn't the problem. The original "The Enterprise" cue had no coherent theme, it was just a jumbled mess of notes. Thank gawd we had a well respected director who could actually give a well respected composer constructive criticism opposed to keeping quite in fear of offending Goldsmith. The added direction improved the score tremendously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I wonder.
If Goldsmith HAD scored Wrath Of Khan, would we even be HAVING this pandemic right now?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The theme from TMP may be Goldsmith's best IMO and is certainly in the top 5 of all time catchiest themes I've ever heard.
It is THE STAR TREK sound, as far as I'm concerned--much like Barry with Bond and Williams with Star Wars.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The theme from TMP may be Goldsmith's best IMO and is certainly in the top 5 of all time catchiest themes I've ever heard.
I've honestly never warmed up to it, it just never felt like a Goldsmith theme to me. Hearing the original, more classical version allowed it to make more sense. But I know that TMP made a great many people into Goldsmith fans, so I understand how close to their heart it must be for them.
I personally theorize that if he'd done Khan, he would have created a new theme, more in keeping with his original concept, but probably more lively, since the film was much faster paced. His re-use of it in later films was probably acknowledging it's popularity as a result of The Next Generation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Always sounds like an uninspired copy of John Williams' hero themes (eg Superman, Star Wars). Works okay on the small screen for Next Gen show - at least that was STAR TREK unlike Wise's TMP - although it still makes me jump over the credits.
One of the Goldsmith Odyssey Interview podcasts had as a guest someone (and I'm sorry, I don't remember who was speaking) who was part of the orchestra during TMP. He said the entire room had to wait and do nothing one day as Goldsmith loudly fought with the producers in the recording booth. He'd been told "make it sound like Star Wars". He eventually caved to the realization that this was what all films wanted now, and he would have to go with the new normal.
As other posters can attest, the theme is greatly loved. But it doesn't reflect Goldsmith's creative instincts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've honestly never warmed up to it, it just never felt like a Goldsmith theme to me. Hearing the original, more classical version allowed it to make more sense. But I know that TMP made a great many people into Goldsmith fans, so I understand how close to their heart it must be for them.
At first I bristled a bit at this comment, but then I remembered something that maybe Lukas or Jeff Bond wrote one time about Jerry's concerts (one of which I have fond memories of attending in Toledo in 1995). The piece pointed out the very correct fact that, unlike Williams, the real attraction of Goldsmith isn't in thememaking. While he has written some amazing themes, the real reason we love Jerry are all of these little moments that are just perfect film scoring moments that really aren't about themes at all -- the ostinato explosion in "The Big Jump," the odd-meter propulsive adventurousness of the "Explorers" bassline, the sad music when Baby finds his dead father, the ram's horn!, etc. So I don't find a need to defend the TMP theme as a great theme even though I think it is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So I don't find a need to defend the TMP theme as a great theme even though I think it is.
Beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder. Nobody here is wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Always sounds like an uninspired copy of John Williams' hero themes (eg Superman, Star Wars). Works okay on the small screen for Next Gen show - at least that was STAR TREK unlike Wise's TMP - although it still makes me jump over the credits.
One of the Goldsmith Odyssey Interview podcasts had as a guest someone (and I'm sorry, I don't remember who was speaking) who was part of the orchestra during TMP. He said the entire room had to wait and do nothing one day as Goldsmith loudly fought with the producers in the recording booth. He'd been told "make it sound like Star Wars". He eventually caved to the realization that this was what all films wanted now, and he would have to go with the new normal.
As other posters can attest, the theme is greatly loved. But it doesn't reflect Goldsmith's creative instincts.
I dunno, the argument could be made that Williams was copying Korngold/Holst and Jerry was copying Williams--they were all just copying each other, whether or not it was mandated by the studio heads.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Apr 7, 2020 - 5:37 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
A Busy Man
(Member)
|
In a way, he did.
Long-time lurker, first-time poster, had to reply to this thread.
Watched Night Crossing recently, and as James Southall points out in his review, Horner borrowed from that score for Star Trek II: http://www.movie-wave.net/titles/night_crossing.html
You can hear examples in this YouTube suite at 4:45, 5:57 and 8:57: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ19lHtkH9k
Anyway, no biggie, I love ST II.
Incidentally, Night Crossing itself has to be one of Goldsmith's most self-referential scores. I can hear Blue Max, Boys from Brazil, The Swarm, Capricorn One, ST TMP and Final Conflict in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1982 was a great year for Jerry Goldsmith:
The Night Crossing
Poltergeist
The Secret of Nimh
First Blood
The Challenge was also pretty good, even if it's not as great as the others.
So I'm glad he didn't do Star Trek II that year. And I don't particularly like the other Star Trek scores he later did: they may be nice, but they really pale in comparison with what he did for the original movie in 1979.
If he had scored it, it would have been excellent, though.
It would have probably been less noisy than what James Horner did... 
I much prefer his score for Star Trek III.
I'd rank 'em:
1. Poltergeist
2. The Challenge
3. Night Crossing
4. The Secret of NIMH
5. First Blood
But, yes, a great Goldsmith year overall. I am so used to Horner's ST2 score that I can't imagine anything else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
He would have done a fantastic job as usual and built upon his themes and material from the first movie.its just hard to imagine considering how great Horners score was.
Would Horner have done as great a job on TMP ? I dont think so.Horner had the benefit of a great movie on his hands with TWOK.Goldsmiths job on TMP was a lot harder as it fell to him to tell much of the films story during those long dialogue free stretches.He really saved that film and created a musical masterpiece.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
