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 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 12:42 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

I love this score! Am glad we can hear more music!

Bring on all the complete scores. People who don't like it, well, just stay way from them, right?
Cannot understand why they need to come here to complain. Very odd indeed.



Nobody complains about the expansion, the very odd comments here are about the Varèse Sarabande CD which sounds really fine, in spite of some flaws (and some are inherent to the recording itself).

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 1:41 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

By the way, the early 90s Varèse Sarabande CD of The River doesn't sound worse than Dracula which was released at the same time.

And the remastered album of Dracula in the latest Deluxe edition doesn't sound significantly better than the first CD edition.

About The Fury, the early 90s Varèse Sarabande CD wins hands down compare to the more recent and louder remasterings of the album.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 1:47 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

By the way, the early 90s Varèse Sarabande CD of The River doesn't sound worse than Dracula which was released at the same time.

And the remastered album of Dracula in the latest Deluxe edition doesn't sound significantly better than the first CD edition.

About The Fury, the early 90s Varèse Sarabande CD wins hands down compare to the more recent and louder remasterings of the album.


Crazy, my remastered editions of these clearly sound better.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 1:54 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

By the way, the early 90s Varèse Sarabande CD of The River doesn't sound worse than Dracula which was released at the same time.

And the remastered album of Dracula in the latest Deluxe edition doesn't sound significantly better than the first CD edition.

About The Fury, the early 90s Varèse Sarabande CD wins hands down compare to the more recent and louder remasterings of the album.


Crazy, my remastered editions of these clearly sound better.



For The Fury, only if you like louder remasterings. I much prefer the depth of the soundstage and dynamics of the older CD.

For Dracula, it's another matter. The transfer is better, the EQ not necessarily.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 2:02 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Fair enough. Some people are happy with the adequate/acceptable sound of the original River Varese CD.
I agree, it's not terrible sounding and has served me for the last however many years it's been released for.
But the prospect of hearing 20 minutes of new and alternate music excites me, as a huge John Williams fan.
Plus many orchestral and instrumental details probably buried in the historical recording and mixing.
That comment that these new recordings sound more like the remastering engineer than the actual composer is the most ridiculous comment I've ever read around here. And I've read some ridiculous comments around here.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 2:20 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Fair enough. Some people are happy with the adequate/acceptable sound of the original River Varese CD.
I agree, it's not terrible sounding and has served me for the how ever many years it it's been released for.
But the prospect of hearing 20 minutes of new and alternate music excites me, as a huge John Williams fan.
Plus many orchestral and instrumental details.
That comment that these new recordings sound more like the remastering engineer than the actual composer is the most ridiculous comment I've ever read around here. And I've read some ridiculous comments around here.



Personally, I can recognize a mastering engineer just by hearing a CD: Mike Matessino doesn't sound like Chris Malone who doesn't sound like James Nelson who doesn't sound like Doug Schwartz.

There's nothing ridiculous about that, and it's quite distracting to hear the remastering engineer very personal input throughout a score.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 2:26 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

And you're saying the music doesn't sound like John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith or James Horner anymore?
Which is what I find ridiculous.
I didn't like Intrada's Dressed To Kill or Rocketeer, but I could always tell it was Pino Donaggio and James Horner's music.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 2:53 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

And you're saying the music doesn't sound like John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith or James Horner anymore?

I didn't say that, not to that extent, but they certainly don't sound as they were recorded, like all the Matessino supporters here will tell.

There's really nothing extraordinary in what I say. If people here are pleased to hear Mike Matessino (the Matessino "touch") in each score he remasters, not me.

But I still buy his releases, especially when he works for Intrada, even if I would have preferred a Joe Tarantino or Douglass Fake remaster for The River.

 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 6:42 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Having just listened to the OST it sounded great. But the sound samples on Intrada's site takes it from great to amazing. As far as remastering goes don't living composers sign off on them? So in a way its what the composer wants you to hear. Though admittedly I'm the biggest critic of artists going back and "tinkering" their old work, unless to fix obvious flaws.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 7:35 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Doesn't Mr. Williams exercise approval rights over these reissues? (Of course he has no power over the legions of fans who inevitably complain about his choices.)

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 8:15 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Doesn't Mr. Williams exercise approval rights over these reissues? (Of course he has no power over the legions of fans who inevitably complain about his choices.)


John Williams produced the album in 1984.

For the more recent reissues, I doubt he was behind the mastering console making the decisions, even if he then gives a polite approval.

The choices are firstly made to please the legions of fans who want to hear the older soundtracks as if they were recorded yesterday.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   governor   (Member)

Doesn't Mr. Williams exercise approval rights over these reissues? (Of course he has no power over the legions of fans who inevitably complain about his choices.)

Yes he does

 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 8:49 AM   
 By:   Replicant006   (Member)

Okay, "polite approval", and not sounding as the composer originally intended?? These comments have entered the realm of absurdity. Most of us are just average fanboys, but it would be nice if MM chimed in on this thread with an informed opinion on the matter.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 8:55 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Doesn't Mr. Williams exercise approval rights over these reissues? (Of course he has no power over the legions of fans who inevitably complain about his choices.)

Yes he does



Does that mean that the result is necessarily perfect, and even better than the own decisions he personally made when he recorded the music?

John Williams would have certainly approved the new master even he it has been different.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 8:59 AM   
 By:   12-Mile Reef   (Member)

Okay, "polite approval", and not sounding as the composer originally intended?? These comments have entered the realm of absurdity. Most of us are just average fanboys, but it would be nice if MM chimed in on this thread with an informed opinion on the matter.

I would rather MM didn't lower himself to answer this nonsense... Mr Williams clearly holds his work in the highest esteem which is why he now produces every John Williams expansion. I've been thoroughly enjoying the 'Far and Away' release the last couple of days and very much looking forward to my copy of 'The River' arriving.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 9:02 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

Okay, "polite approval", and not sounding as the composer originally intended?? These comments have entered the realm of absurdity. Most of us are just average fanboys, but it would be nice if MM chimed in on this thread with an informed opinion on the matter.


What I mean is that he was not behind the mastering console, making each decision.

One of my friend is in touch with Philippe Sarde, for Ghost Story he "approved" the final master but he actually made no real decisions.

Which was not a problem for him.

Philippe Sarde also said Mike Matessino was very nice, what I have never doubted.

 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

Thor: I can understand that the original release is not up to the crystal-clear sonics of current CD productions, but calling it 'awful' is just too harsh. As Nono said, it has a certain warmth and identity about it that most newer recordings don't.

TerraEpon: Sampling a bit of the original album right now. It has that 80s digital harshness for sure, but I'd hardly call it 'awful' and I'm a pretty harsh critic of actual awful sound quality.

The Varèse CD release of the 1984 MCA album was the least polished of a set of discouragingly desultory CD releases sub-licensed from MCA. And that’s my final opinion.

 
 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 11:35 AM   
 By:   William R.   (Member)

I remember Williams saying that Martin Ritt was very judicious in spotting and wanted as little music as possible. The most gripping scene in the films, when Sissy Spacek is trapped under a tractor, runs for a long time without any music, even though I think the piece intended for it was on the original album.

Edit: Looks like I confused Mark Rydell with Martin Ritt. Oh well, ordered anyway.

 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 12:33 PM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

My order just shipped from Intrada along with Roger Rabbit!

 
 Posted:   May 8, 2020 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   John Schuermann   (Member)

Nono, what would like Mr. Matessino to do, exactly? Mixing monitors were notoriously poor and inaccurate back in the 70s and 80s, so one could not even really hear what was in the recording. Modern monitors from companies like Genelec and JBL are much more accurate and revealing, which means a mastering engineer can make much more educated decisions when applying EQ, etc.

The argument for and against compression has been hashed to death here, so would rather not revisit that, and focus on other areas of mixing / remixing. My short take - over-compression is a bad thing, agreed. But there is always some compression added at some point in the recording or mastering process - sometimes it's even added by the microphones themselves.

So, beyond that, what represents a "proper" remaster in your view?

 
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