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I can't wait to get ten to fifteen years out, when it's no longer hip to shit on the sequels, and see how people really feel. That certainly seems to be what happened with the prequel trilogy.
Yeah no kidding. The impression these days is that people hate the sequel trilogy more than the prequel trilogy, which is just wild and bizarre to me. Maybe with some more time people will appreciate the sequels for their strengths (likeable characters with some personality, many practical effects and creatures rather than CGI crapfest, the more "lived in" feel from the original trilogy, and some fun fast-paced action). Corporate cash grabs? C'mon, people, these movies were cash-grabs from the beginning. Unless you're one of those who consider the prequels some sort of auteur project... then I frankly just don't understand you.
Yavar
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I can't wait to get ten to fifteen years out, when it's no longer hip to shit on the sequels, and see how people really feel. That certainly seems to be what happened with the prequel trilogy.
Yeah no kidding. The impression these days is that people hate the sequel trilogy more than the prequel trilogy, which is just wild and bizarre to me. Maybe with some more time people will appreciate the sequels for their strengths (likeable characters with some personality, many practical effects and creatures rather than CGI crapfest, the more "lived in" feel from the original trilogy, and some fun fast-paced action). Corporate cash grabs? C'mon, people, these movies were cash-grabs from the beginning. Unless you're one of those who consider the prequels some sort of auteur project... then I frankly just don't understand you.
Yavar
I do wonder if this will ever be the case though?
It's possible the maturity of the internet + social media has made the backlash to the 7, 8, 9 SEQUELS more rapid. I don't recall there being so much unanimous hate for the 1, 2, 3 PREQUELS initially, it more seemed to settle in over time.
BUT - I think more credit needs to be given to the critics of the SEQUELS than is given because there are legitimate facts for weaknesses in the SEQUELS: they were given far less production time than normal. There was no clear story map that was agreed upon, which made Last Jedi an outlier. The "Lucasfilm Story Group" is an oversight entity that is common in corporations but unusual in the filmmaking process (it's usually handled by a combo of director + producer + department heads). Also a good portion of the main cast each had their own public critiques and disagreements of the film and characters (Mark Hamill about Luke, Daisy Ridley about Rey, Kelly Marie Tran about Rose, John Boyega about Finn's new romantic relationship, Oscar Isaac about Poe's relationship...)
The issue is that a lot of those weaknesses cover the core creative building blocks of the film.
However, you do point out legitimate strengths such as having infinitely better actors and the push to do things with more practical sets and effects* (*see my later note about how shooting on digital ruined the prequels)
In summary, I think the SEQUELS had poorly planned building blocks that were cobbled together as best as could be done in post-production.
In contrast, the PREQUELS I think have really well-planned building blocks that were poorly executed with too much green/blue screen and some of the editing choices didn't help (I pointed out how I was able to resolve some issues in Attack of the Clones simply by editing things out or moving things around).
*It's well-known that the prequels used mostly miniatures but lesser-known is the nascent digital cameras (Sony HDW-F900 for AOTC, Sony HDC-F950 for ROTS) and compositing tech rendered much of that material as looking incorrectly digitized. In parallel, the Lord of the Rings shot its miniatures on film which made the resolution-matching much more naturalistic. Shooting on digital was a forward-thinking choice for overall production but an unfortunate mistake when it came to the realism of the miniature effects, given the quality of the digital cameras at that time.
It's also why the models of the Phantom Menace look better and more naturalistic than the other two films (TPM was shot on film).
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I can't wait to get ten to fifteen years out, when it's no longer hip to shit on the sequels, and see how people really feel. That certainly seems to be what happened with the prequel trilogy.
Yeah no kidding. The impression these days is that people hate the sequel trilogy more than the prequel trilogy, which is just wild and bizarre to me. Maybe with some more time people will appreciate the sequels for their strengths (likeable characters with some personality, many practical effects and creatures rather than CGI crapfest, the more "lived in" feel from the original trilogy, and some fun fast-paced action). Corporate cash grabs? C'mon, people, these movies were cash-grabs from the beginning. Unless you're one of those who consider the prequels some sort of auteur project... then I frankly just don't understand you.
Yavar
Without getting too much into the quality of the sequels versus the prequels, I think there are couple of reasons that some people tend to view the prequels more favorably than the sequels. First, whatever you think of the prequels, they established several things that other projects have picked up on and ran with. Clone Wars, The Bad Batch, and the Mandalorian all draw heavily from the prequels, and because these shows are generally viewed favorably by the fans, I think opinions of the prequels has risen as well, as many are appreciating the prequels for their strengths instead of simply dumping on them for their many failings. As of now, nothing has really been spun off from the sequels, and Rise of Skywalker's poor performance has put Star Wars films on hold until at least 2022 or later.
Second, the sequels did a horrible job handling pretty much every character from the original trilogy. Han seemed pathetic, they never knew what to do with Leia and Fisher's untimely passing complicated matters, Luke was probably handled best, but still way out of character. Also it seemed a bit silly to bring back the characters and then give them little or no interaction with each other. It all felt like a missed opportunity, and tarnishes the victories they achieved in the original trilogy.
Personally, I have been a Star Wars fan since I first saw it in the theater in 1977. As with most other series, it has its peaks and valleys, but when they have gotten it right, it really shines. (For me at least). With respect to the music, it is hard to judge. I think the current sequel albums are better representations of their scores on their respective album releases, but I think I favor the music from the prequels a bit better. All that said, I love each score and am happy to listen to it all.
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Posted: |
Jun 10, 2021 - 3:56 PM
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By: |
JSDouglas
(Member)
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My favoritism toward the various STAR WARS scores tends to lean in the direction of the music that has been with me the longest.
I admire all the scores - even the recent ones.
STAR WARS (which was how we recognized the film before the chapter sub-headings came into being) with it's mix of classical music references and outstanding and invigorating original material combined with George Lucas' visionary mash-up of eye-popping effects work, serial thrills and heroic myth, really impressed us 12-year-olds back in 1977. The music - along with Goldsmith's LOGAN'S RUN and Rozsa's THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD - became an instant favorite.
I remember how THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK came out and did the impossible by actually surpassing the first film in almost every way imaginable. The music score was tremendous and, to this day, remains the gold standard for John Williams work on the series.
RETURN OF THE JEDI, as a film, was problematic and I think Williams' score suffered a bit - but it was still a very strong musical entry in this series which, at the time (and for a while thereafter), we thought closed the book on John Williams and STAR WARS.
Then the prequels happened. They always seemed clunky in the story department, but visually indulgent and awash with exciting John Williams music. Williams did some very inspired work in the prequels. After REVENGE OF THE SITH it appeared that the STAR WARS saga was officially over except for various animated spin-offs.
Then it came back. And John Williams came back. The new trilogy seemed to draw a more operatic approach from Williams with fewer stand-alone action sequences. I found his work on the newer films driven by more emotion-laden writing which was very wonderful to hear.
His work on these films is a towering achievement - they should be preserved.
JSD
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Does anyone out there feel that a complete score presentation should also include the original album versions as in La La Land's release of SUPERMAN?
YES.
100% yes!
The original album arrangements are historical.
I also don’t know if this fits but the Anthology release was also worth preserving - what that taught me was that the action sequences were comprised of separate cues. While it’s nice to hear the action music edited all together, hearing them separately is interesting. I particularly enjoy The Empire Strikes Back and the separate cues in The Battle of Hoth. It’s fascinating to hear how Williams starts and ends the cues with musical transitions that would facilitate seamless crossfading.
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The Mother of all Clucking Scores is going to Happen …This Year…Ssssshhhhh Tell No One! It is …A Score that was never ever coming out….
The Birds!! :air guitar:
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I hope it’s complete and correctly put together.
The Concord Indiana Jones set was a bit lacking, though I WAS grateful for what we got.
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I also don’t know if this fits but the Anthology release was also worth preserving - what that taught me was that the action sequences were comprised of separate cues. While it’s nice to hear the action music edited all together, hearing them separately is interesting. I particularly enjoy The Empire Strikes Back and the separate cues in The Battle of Hoth. It’s fascinating to hear how Williams starts and ends the cues with musical transitions that would facilitate seamless crossfading.
I have to agree. I'd like a future reissue (if any) to be a little more selective in merging cues together . . . even if they were designed to crossfade in the film. Some of them work well but others shift gears completely and seem less smooth as a listening experience. To me.
This has presented me with a "problem". Why do I prefer the Hoth battle tracks being broken apart into three separate tacks (like they were on the Anthology)? But I want the first and second parts of the Death Star battle from Star Wars (Standing By and parts of The Last Battle on the Anthology) to be combined? And I can't make up my mind about Losing a Hand being combined with Hyperspace?
I guess the deciding factor is that in Empire they seem to be discreet ideas both musically and narratively. The music is wall to wall, but the scenes are separate. Whereas in the Death Star battle it's a single narrative idea.
To the original question: Original by an amazing measure. Partly from nostalgia, I'm sure. But Williams was operating on such a different level during that era. (I mean, one of the "worst" scores he wrote in that time was Dracula!) And I feel that in both the Prequel AND Sequel trilogy JTW had one good film in him (Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens) and then he had some remarkable themes for the other two movies. And in that regard Across the Stars and Battle of the Heroes beats the pants off of Rise of Skywalker and The Rebellion is Reborn.
Rey's theme is amazing.
But c'mon.
Now: Star Wars or The Empire Strikes Back? THAT'S a question! (I'm a hair on the Star Wars side.)
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I personally like the Prequel Trilogy scores the best. Revenge of the Sith is by far my favorite score of all 9 movies.
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I can't wait to get ten to fifteen years out, when it's no longer hip to shit on the sequels, and see how people really feel. That certainly seems to be what happened with the prequel trilogy.
I agree with this 100 percent. It's follow the leader hating. I actually prefer the prequel trilogy film scores over the rest of the series. Just my personal tastes of course but I thought the darkness of a collapsing Republic, the tragedy, and the heartbreak were so beautifully showcased by John Williams. His music also enhanced the new and exciting worlds the prequel trilogy was allowed to explore due to major updates in movie making technology.
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and 
