 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So it's a little insulting that you would think something like this was taken likely. But not really surprising.
Lightly, you mean. I had no insinuation thereof whatsoever. I said I have no idea about the contractual side of things. Not everyone has inside knowledge about this. My take was more that -- in principle -- it would have been nice to have Bock credited on the cover. You have explained why that wasn't the case, and you could have forwarded that view without the over-reaction and personal insult.
Edited my typo in O.P. Thank you.
If you consider my lack of surprise as an insult, I only had reference to the fact that there is nothing new about negative comments appearing from you in threads about releases you have no interest in. If you're content with the 30th anniversary edition, fine. Have fun searching for Bock's & Harnick's names anywhere on it as well as the completely incorrect accreditation to the London Symphony Orchestra. You may also disregard the fact that John Williams had no involvement in that release, hated how it sounded because they basically got everything wrong, and has been asking for years if it could be redone. Now I see that you may not have cared for it enough to pay close attention. You're not alone in that, as even Saul Chaplin, whose daughter married Hal Prince, didn't like what John did with it. But the popularity and enduring qualities of the film and album speak for themselves. I did assume that you've been around long enough that you might have absorbed some of the basics about the legality of credits, but that's okay too. It's under control here in the trenches.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Nov 26, 2021 - 1:38 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Thor
(Member)
|
If you consider my lack of surprise as an insult, I only had reference to the fact that there is nothing new about negative comments appearing from you in threads about releases you have no interest in.
If you've been around the boards for a while (and I know that you have), you know that I have a huge interest in anything John Williams-related. More than most. That includes FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, even if I don't care much for the work. Same goes for JOHN GOLDFARB PLEASE COME HOME or other "wonky" credits on his resume. And this interest means commenting on any and all aspects of the presentation of the score, or the score itself.
Listen, knowing nothing whatsoever about the legalese of things, I just thought it was a nice opportunity to showcase the actual composer of the songs on the front cover (yes, I'm aware the previous editions didn't do that either). You explained succinctly why he wasn't, and I appreciate that, but there is really no need to get defensive about it. I have no doubt you've done tremendous work researching royalty splits and whatnot, and an explanation of this does nicely. Nothing more or less required.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you consider my lack of surprise as an insult, I only had reference to the fact that there is nothing new about negative comments appearing from you in threads about releases you have no interest in.
If you've been around the boards for a while (and I know that you have), you know that I have a huge interest in anything John Williams-related. More than most. That includes FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, even if I don't care much for the work. Same goes for JOHN GOLDFARB PLEASE COME HOME or other "wonky" credits on his resume. And this interest means commenting on any and all aspects of the presentation of the score, or the score itself.
Listen, knowing nothing whatsoever about the legalese of things, I just thought it was a nice opportunity to showcase the actual composer of the songs on the front cover (yes, I'm aware the previous editions didn't do that either). You explained succinctly why he wasn't, and I appreciate that, but there is really no need to get defensive about it. I have no doubt you've done tremendous work researching royalty splits and whatnot, and an explanation of this does nicely. Nothing more or less required.
I know of your interest, and so does everyone else, and it's admirable, but all that really came through was that there was a lost opportunity for a release you have no interest in of a score you don't care for.
It should mean something to you that Disc 1 of this release is now exactly the album that Williams and Jewison had wanted to release at the time, that both of them love the restoration, and that the version that's good enough for you is one that the Maestro deplored. The producers of that release of 20 years ago are good people (and goodness knows that there have been occasions where I have disliked work of my own from years earlier), so when a wrong has been righted, support and acceptance are incredibly helpful in continuing to push for the first time releases that we would all like to see. Taking care of an important Oscar-winning project and having the release be embraced helps that cause.
As for the Bock/Harnick issue, I did raise the point but was shown the original UA Records contracts stipulating who gets jacket credit. The Bock/Harnick agents were either asleep or the songwriters, who had parted ways by then, didn't care. However, you'll find that their names are more prominently on it now than on any previous release.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm one of those misfortunate ones who missed the previous editions entirely. I only vaguely remember watching the film on our VCR back in the late 70s just when JAWS was the new rage. For me this is a terrific opportunity to discover and enjoy this great Deluxe and definite presentation for the first time. This will be a great joy. Thank you for your great work and service, Mike.
This, times two. I've not seen the film nor heard the soundtrack once. So to say I'm very excited for this release is not an overstatement at all. I applaud your efforts, MM, as well as others who make these releases possible. I don't think many of us have the slightest idea of the hard work that it takes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Nov 26, 2021 - 10:02 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
|
I'll admit that my feelings about the film are colored by my love for the show. My mother took my brother and me to see Zero Mostel in the revival when I was twelve. It was an amazing experience, and so the film has always disappointed me.
Perhaps the Fiddler I saw in the theater was the superior production, or perhaps I just imprinted on it like a baby duck, but I always found the film pushed everything too hard. Honestly, this may be an inevitable consequence of taking the abstraction of the theatrical experience and putting it in the real world.
Regardless, I have absolutely no doubt as to the quality of of this new CD set. My misgivings about the film and Williams' contributions are my own, but my admiration for the source material, for Williams, and for Mike Matessino (and Isaac Stern isn't so bad either) will rule the day and I can't let this one pass. L'chaim, everybody!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Nov 27, 2021 - 1:18 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Thor
(Member)
|
I know of your interest, and so does everyone else, and it's admirable, but all that really came through was that there was a lost opportunity for a release you have no interest in of a score you don't care for.
This is somewhat strange logic to me. If you're interested in a composer's work at my level, you're interested in all aspects of it. I also find other Williams works lacking -- the aforementioned GOLDFARB, THOMAS AND THE KING, THE BFG, THE BOOK THIEF, "America, The Dream Goes On", to mention some. However, I'm still VERY MUCH interested in talking about them, and - if pertinent - their presentation on albums, positive or negative.
A level of interest or care is not measured by salutations alone, or a thousand posts yelling "Ordered!".
But I'm happy that Williams is pleased with this release. I would definitely be interested in sampling the first disc to see how it compares to my 30th disc (apparently disliked by him), even if a physical substitution is unlikely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know of your interest, and so does everyone else, and it's admirable, but all that really came through was that there was a lost opportunity for a release you have no interest in of a score you don't care for.
This is somewhat strange logic to me. If you're interested in a composer's work at my level, you're interested in all aspects of it. I also find other Williams works lacking -- the aforementioned GOLDFARB, THOMAS AND THE KING, THE BFG, THE BOOK THIEF, "America, The Dream Goes On", to mention some. However, I'm still VERY MUCH interested in talking about them, and - if pertinent - their presentation on albums, positive or negative.
A level of interest or care is not measured by salutations alone, or a thousand posts yelling "Ordered!".
But I'm happy that Williams is pleased with this release. I would definitely be interested in sampling the first disc to see how it compares to my 30th disc (apparently disliked by him), even if a physical substitution is unlikely.
I was just saying what came through in your posts to me at that particular moment was: "I'm not interested in this, I'm not particularly fond of it, why didn't you do such-and-such with the credits?" It had nothing to do with whether or not you had an interest in a composer's overall output, which everyone knows you possess. And guess what? If you had said nothing about this release, we wouldn't be at all less aware of that fact. I personally feel we have two ears and one mouth because listening is twice as important as talking. Not that multiple shouts of "ordered" can't be tedious, but they are pleasant to see and are effective in their terseness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Nov 27, 2021 - 9:00 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Thor
(Member)
|
That's your interpretation, Mike. It doesn't align to mine. I can only say that I was curious about the aspect of composer credits on the cover, much like Nicolai also was (and probably a great many others). Nothing more, nothing less. A query that is easily answered, without any more "hooplah" than that. My opinion on expanded releases is well-known, and not really a focus of my posting here. I'm interested in Williams, I'm interested in FIDDLER and I'm interested in talking about it -- the film, the score, the presentations of the score, the credits on the album cover.
As I said, I do aim to sample the first disc, in particular, and perhaps substitute my digital transfer of the 30th album to iTunes, especially since it's Williams-condoned. Regardless of my view on these types of releases, it appears to be an impressive enterprise, for which you deserve appropriate kudos.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
