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Posted: |
Aug 29, 2022 - 4:13 AM
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By: |
mikael488
(Member)
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[But this one was really a co-compositorial effort at least according to SIAE which credits both, Morricone and Paoli, as composers of the entire score "Prima della rivoluzione". Do I miss something here?
The two Paoli songs on the other hand are solely credited to Paoli according to SIAE. I've just checked that, too.
I haven't yet heard the music myself. Could it be Ennio integrated the two Paoli songs into the fabric of his own instrumental score which justifies this double authorship?
Yes, the matter is indeed a bit confusing due to those strange credits in the film and on the CD. However, Morricone didn´t integrate the two Paoli songs in his underscore in the film at all and the instrumental tracks are therefore pure Morricone. The score partly foreshadows EL GRECO and also the theme from the song "Un fiore é nato" which appeared one year later in MENAGE ALL´ITALIANA can already be heard a few times here.
We talked about the score in this thread and it may be as board member "Morricone" has suggested that in 1964 Paoli was much more famous than Morricone himself so that he therefore received a co-composer credit just for contractual reasons:
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=141091&forumID=1&archive=0
You are a bit wrong here Stefan, because some of the instrumental tracks such as "prima della rivoluzione", "Vivere e non vivere", "Tu vedrai" and "Sognare e non sognare" do indeed integrate fragments of the melody of "un fiore e nato", which in fact was composed by Gino Paoli. So the double authorship should be correct.
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You are a bit wrong here Stefan, because some of the instrumental tracks such as "prima della rivoluzione", "Vivere e non vivere", "Tu vedrai" and "Sognare e non sognare" do indeed integrate fragments of the melody of "un fiore e nato", which in fact was composed by Gino Paoli. So the double authorship should be correct.
Many thanks for your correction, Mikael. Of course I was fully aware - as I had written above - that parts of the "Un fiore é nato" theme which otherwise cropped up in its song-form only one year later in Morricone´s MENAGE ALL´ITALIANA - had been used in a few of Morricone´s instrumental tracks for PRIMA DELLA RIVOUZIONE, but I didn´t pay attention to the fact that this song had in fact also been written by Paoli (together with Sergio Bardotti).
So now the co-composer credit is much clearer as Morricone integrated fragments of this melody by Paoli - which got popular only one year later when it was sung by Anna Moffo and not even by Paoli himself - into a few of his own tracks.
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Before it appeared on Secret of the Sahara, the bible music ( the creation piece) was used in the 1965-ish western The Return of Ringo.
But only as a short version with the title "L´incontro con la figlia" with a duration of 2:52 minutes instead of about 10 minutes as in SECRET OF THE SAHARA.
Also the track "The Golden Door" - originally composed for THE BIBLE - had first appeared as "Torre di Babele" in Morricone´s IL GIARDINO DELLE DELIZIE in 1967.
There are even two more tracks which had apparently been composed for the BIBLE - and keep in mind that Ferrara had recorded all these BIBLE tracks by Morricone already in 1964 and not in 1966!
These two other tracks are "Deliquio" which appeared for the first time in AMANTI D´OLTRE TOMBA in 1965 and "Le voci" which again appeared in IL GIARDINO DELEL DELIZIE. and for which Morricone overdubbed the original version with Edda Dell Orso´s voice.
More infos here:
https://chimai.miraheze.org/wiki/Movie_The_Bible
https://chimai.miraheze.org/wiki/Track_Torre_di_Babele_(id419)
https://chimai.miraheze.org/wiki/Track_Deliquio_(id410)
https://chimai.miraheze.org/wiki/Track_Le_voci_(id10567)
OK, I've finnally had the time to go through this Ennio Morricone Bible Odyssey and made me more familiar with all those bits and pieces that were used or reused from Ennio's allegedly four demo score fragments. What a great pity, he wasn't able to do the entire film. It looks like De Laurentiis is to blame for this. But that's another story.
Based on your info and the data on chimai.com there are two pieces of music that Morricone composed as demos for "The Bible: In the Beginning..." which were recorded in 1964 with Franco Ferrara conducting the Orchestra e Coro della RAI di Roma.
1) La creazione (The creaction)
2) Torre di Babele (Tower of Babylon)
Then there are two other pieces:
3) Deliquio
4) Le voci
From what I've read so far, concerning the tracks "Deliquio" and "Le voci" it's not 100% certain that they were recorded by Franco Ferrara. Contributors on chimai.com assume they were but I've read nowhere that this has ever been really verified. Is that correct?
When I listen to "Deliquio" and "Le voci" it is obvious that the music is very similar in style and recorded sound to what we can hear when listening to "La creazione" or " Torre di Babele". So, I myself also do assume all four pieces were recorded at the same time by Ferrara. But, of course, I could be wrong. I hope not.
The following films feature music from those four demo tracks; for the Ferrara filmography I've added these comments to those titles - feel free, to correct me if they contain inaccurate info:
I'll start with the film that caused the whole imbroglio:
The Bible: In the Beginning… (1966)
COMMENTS: Ennio Morricone apparently composed c. 15 minutes of demo music for the film; i.e. four tracks "La creazione", "Torre di Babele", "Deliquio" and "Le voci" which Franco Ferrara conducted during a recording session with the Orchestra e Coro della RAI di Roma in 1964; it is, however, not fully confirmed that "Deliquio" and "Le voci" were actually recorded during the Ferrara sessions; those two tracks might only have been intended for the film but have not been recorded during the said session with Ferrara.
Due to legal disagreements over Morricone's planned contract another composer was finally chosen to score "The Bible"; apparently some of Morricone's music was used in the film (uncredited; information unconfirmed).
Toshirô Mayuzumi composed the replacement score, also conducted by Ferrara.
Morricone reused the Franco Ferrara conducted tracks from his demo score in a couple of other films (see "Il ritorno di Ringo" - 1965, "Amanti d'oltre tomba" (1965), "Il giardino delle delizie" - 1967 and "Il segreto del Sahara" - 1988)
CD release: Legend – CD 40 DLX
Il ritorno di Ringo (1965)
COMMENTS: Bruno Nicolai, conductor (uncredited); featuring a selection from the unused score for "The Bible: In the Beginning…" (1966), conducted by Franco Ferrara in 1964 (uncredited); the cue used in "Il ritorno di Ringo" is titled "L'incontro con la figlia" (original title "La creazione")
LP release: Arc – SA 7
CD release: GDM – GDM 4134
Amanti d'oltre tomba (1965)
COMMENTS: Ennio Morricone, conductor; Franco Ferrara, conductor (uncredited); featuring edited excerpts from the unused score to the film "The Bible: In the Beginning..." (1966), i.e. track "Deliquio" as originally recorded in 1964; released on GDM's soundtrack CD as track #3 "Distesi"
CD release: GDM – CD CLUB 7031
Il giardino delle delizie (1967)
COMMENTS: Bruno Nicolai and Franco Ferrara, conductors; Ennio Morricone, conductor (uncredited); with revised music from the unused demo score for "The Bible: In the Beginning...", i.e. tracks "Deliquio" and "Le voci"; adding Edda dell'Orso's voice in 1967 to the Ferrara conducted recording done in 1964; revised 1967 recording conducted by Bruno Nicolai which can be heard on track #3 "Il Giardino Delle Delizie (Primo)" of the GDM soundtrack release
CD release: CD GDM 2041
Giotto (1969)
COMMENTS: Documentary;
contains tracked music from previous Morricone scores, among those is "Torre di Babele" from his unused demo score for "The Bible: In the Beginning…" (recorded in 1964)
Il segreto del Sahara (1988)
COMMENTS: TV mini-series
includes music from Ennio Morricone's unused 1966 demo score "The Bible: In the Beginning…" conducted by Franco Ferrara and recorded in 1964; i.e. two tracks "The Mountain" (original title "La creazione") and "The Golden Door" (original title "Torre di Babele")
CD release: GDM – GDM 4107-2
Roma: Imago urbis (1992)
COMMENTS: 15 episode documentary TV series
Ennio Morricone composed some original music for the series, but numerous tracks from his previous scores have also been used, among those are "La creazione" and "Torre di Babele" from his unused demo score for "The Bible: In the Beginning…"
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Based on your info and the data on chimai.com there are two pieces of music that Morricone composed as demos for "The Bible: In the Beginning..." which were recorded in 1964 with Franco Ferrara conducting the Orchestra e Coro della RAI di Roma.
1) La creazione (The creaction)
2) Torre di Babele (Tower of Babylon)
Then there are two other pieces:
3) Deliquio
4) Le voci
From what I've read so far, concerning the tracks "Deliquio" and "Le voci" it's not 100% certain that they were recorded by Franco Ferrara. Contributors on chimai.com assume they were but I've read nowhere that this has ever been really verified. Is that correct?
According to Morricone himself (in the book "In His Own Words") he only wrote the two pieces "The Creation" and "Tower of Babel" for THE BIBLE. He had at first been commissioned to just prepare a piece for the Creation sequence without even having seen one single frame of the movie. Of his own initiative he then decided to add a second piece related to the Tower of Babel. And both tracks were then recorded by Ferrara. But he doesn´t talk about the other two pieces "Deliquio" and "Le voci" at all - so this remains of course part of the speculation among Morricone fans.
By the way, before Morricone even his teacher Goffredo Petrassi had been asked to compose the music for THE BIBLE in 1964, but apparently (again according to Morricone) the score he supplied didn´t convince director John Huston at all.
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According to Morricone himself (in the book "In His Own Words") he only wrote the two pieces "The Creation" and "Tower of Babel" for THE BIBLE. He had at first been commissioned to just prepare a piece for the Creation sequence without even having seen one single frame of the movie. Of his own initiative he then decided to add a second piece related to the Tower of Babel. And both tracks were then recorded by Ferrara. But he doesn´t talk about the other two pieces "Deliquio" and "Le voci" at all - so this remains of course part of the speculation among Morricone fans.
Yes, he said that. And yet it doesn't fit because we have "Il giardino delle delizie" which clearly credits Franco Ferrara as conductor along with Bruno Nicolai in the same size full caps lettering.
According to those chimai.com fans, the only music from Ennio's Bibbia used in Giardino are the tracks "Deliquio" AND "Le voci"! Nothing else. Curious, isn't it? That means, Ferrara actually conducted these piece as well, which were years later revised by adding dell'Orso's voice etc. on top of it. Or, the fans got it all wrong, and are mishearing what's the basis of the revised tracks which, in such a case, could only be segments from "La creazione" or "Torre di Babele".
By the way, can we be sure, that those two pieces (La creazione and Torre di Babele) have really been released in their complete unabridged form, i.e. without any edits, ever?
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Yes, he said that. And yet it doesn't fit because we have "Il giardino delle delizie" which clearly credits Franco Ferrara as conductor along with Bruno Nicolai in the same size full caps lettering.
According to those chimai.com fans, the only music from Ennio's Bibbia used in Giardino are the tracks "Deliquio" AND "Le voci"! Nothing else. Curious, isn't it? That means, Ferrara actually conducted these piece as well, which were years later revised by adding dell'Orso's voice etc. on top of it.
No, that´s not quite correct. During the End Titles of the IL GIARDINO DELLE DELIZIE film the last part of "The Creation" track is heard. And apparently also "Tower of Babel" has been used in the film itself. You can find all these infos on the Chimai website. Therefore of course the Ferrara credit in the film.
On the other hand, for the "Deliquio" track Bruno Nicolai was credited as conductor when the track first appeared on this RCA library LP in 1970:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10389683-Various-Drammatici-E-Musiche-Di-Tensione-Psicologica-4
So it´s a quite complicated story.
Besides, this track "Deliquio" also appeared already two years earlier in AMANTI D´OLTRE TOMBA in 1965. On the AMANTI D´OLTRE TOMBA CD Morricone is credited as conductor - but it is not clear whether this is really true.
For "Le voci", Bruno Nicolai as well was credited as conductor when it first appeared on another one of those RCA library LPs in 1970:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11771567-Various-Drammatici-E-Musiche-Di-Tensione-Psicologica-5
By the way, can we be sure, that those two pieces (La creazione and Torre di Babele) have really been released in their complete unabridged form, i.e. without any edits, ever?
Above all "The Creation" is a very long piece with more than 10 minutes so that I am quite sure that the complete version of it is the one which turned up in SECRET OF THE SAHARA. I have never come upon any source which claimed anything else.
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I've just taken a look at what's registered on SIAE concerning all those tracks from "The Bible: In the Beginning..." by Ennio Morricone.
It won't prove anything regarding Ferrara's involvment as conductor. But it's still interesting, I think.
First you find the title with its corresponding ISWC, second the composer with corresponding IPI, third the publisher with its IPI -- in some cases, as you can see, there's no publisher = "NA" [EDIT: just made order in the list so it's more coherent by the ISWC]:
[Edit: 09/10/22 -- one more "Bibbia" entry found which is now included in the list]
LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: LA BIBBIA (T-912.510.134-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
MUSICA E OLTRE S.R.L. 00698038400
LA BIBBIA (T-912.510.134-0)
Altri Titoli (5)
TORRE DI BABELE
LA TORRE DI BABELE
CREAZIONE
LA CREAZIONE
BIBBIA
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
MUSICA E OLTRE S.R.L. 00698038400
LA TORRE DI BABELE (T-912.510.134-0)
titolo originale: LA BIBBIA
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
MUSICA E OLTRE S.R.L. 00698038400
GLI ANIMALI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.330-0)
Altri Titoli (9)
ANIMALI DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
LUOMO DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
DONNA DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
LA DONNA DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
UCCELLI DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
GLI UCCELLI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
IL SETTIMO GIORNO DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
SETTIMO GIORNO DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
UOMO DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
GLI UCCELLI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: GLI ANIMALI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.330-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
IL SETTIMO GIORNO DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: GLI ANIMALI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.330-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
L'UOMO DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: GLI ANIMALI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.330-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
LA DONNA DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: GLI ANIMALI DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.330-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.329-7)
Altri Titoli (9)
LUCE DA LA BIBBIA CREAZIONE
BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
ACQUA DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
LA TERRA DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
LA LUCE DA LA BIBBIA - CREAZIONE
FUOCO DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
LACQUA DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
TERRA DA LA BIBBIA LA CREAZIONE
IL FUOCO DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
IL FUOCO DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.329-7)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
L'ACQUA DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.329-7)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
LA LUCE DA LA BIBBIA - CREAZIONE
titolo originale: LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.329-7)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
LA TERRA DA LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE
titolo originale: LA BIBBIA - LA CREAZIONE (T-912.890.329-7)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
NA
INCONTRO CON LA FIGLIA (T-005.919.694-9)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
MOUNTAIN (T-005.010.539-9)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
BABELE (T-006.078.395-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
GOLDEN DOOR (T-005.015.903-9)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
DELIQUIO (T-005.692.418-5)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
VOCI (T-005.023.700-7)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
AMANTI D OLTRETOMBA FILM (T-005.021.654-0)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
GIARDINO DELLE DELIZIE FILM (T-005.011.522-4)
MORRICONE ENNIO 00021552128
UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING RICORDI S.R.L 00547691219
Distesi => NOT FOUND ON SIAE
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Franco Ferrara Dirige I Grandi Classici Della Musica Da Film – 1° Parte
(Franco Ferrara Conducts the Great Classics of Fim Music - Part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E3BX9uiSAc&list=PLdl1y1w4PGIpcdaLmczNEkmnUSseU_S_1
The playlist contains 99 tracks from 11 films:
- La Strada (Rota)
- Ulisse (Cicognini)
- The Barefoot Contessa (Nascimbene)
- Picasso (Vlad)
- Il Bidone (Rota)
- Accade al penitenziario (Rota)
- Alexander the Great (Nascimbene)
- War and Peace (Rota)
- Uomini e lupi (Nascimbene)
- Le notti di Cabiria (Rota)
- A Farewell to Arms (Nascimbene)
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Franco Ferrara Dirige I Grandi Classici Della Musica Da Film – 2° Parte
(Franco Ferrara Conducts the Great Classics of Fim Music - Part 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tuNHSik7IY&list=PLdl1y1w4PGIpTKi-sCdePkHcjoPySyD8b
The playlist contains 100 tracks from 11 films:
- L’ultima violenza (Nascimbene)
- This angry age (La diga sul Pacifico) (Rota)
- The quiet American (Nascimbene)
- Fortunella (Rota)
- The Vikings (Nascimbene)
- L’uomo dai calzoni corte (Rustichelli)
- La tempesta (Piccioni)
- Il terrore dei barbari (Goliath and the Barbarians) (Innocenzi)
- La grande guerra (Rota)
- Solomon and Sheba (Nascimbene)
- Annibale (Rustichelli)
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Franco Ferrara Dirige I Grandi Classici Della Musica Da Film – 3° Parte
(Franco Ferrara Conducts the Great Classics of Fim Music - Part 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK3RCVnrtio&list=PLdl1y1w4PGIqrGAEUsEPcLLQKOiJa3sy-
The playlist contains 122 tracks from 9 films:
- Scent of mystery (Nascimbene)
- L’avventura (Fusco)
- La dolce vita (Rota)
- Kapò (Rustichelli)
- Rocco e i suoi fratelli (Rota)
- I giganti della Tessaglia (Rustichelli)
- Costantino il grande (Nascimbene)
- Le baccanti (Nascimbene)
- Antinea – L’amante della città sepolta (Rustichelli)
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No, that´s not quite correct. During the End Titles of the IL GIARDINO DELLE DELIZIE film the last part of "The Creation" track is heard. And apparently also "Tower of Babel" has been used in the film itself. You can find all these infos on the Chimai website. Therefore of course the Ferrara credit in the film.
On the other hand, for the "Deliquio" track Bruno Nicolai was credited as conductor when the track first appeared on this RCA library LP in 1970:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10389683-Various-Drammatici-E-Musiche-Di-Tensione-Psicologica-4
So it´s a quite complicated story.
Besides, this track "Deliquio" also appeared already two years earlier in AMANTI D´OLTRE TOMBA in 1965. On the AMANTI D´OLTRE TOMBA CD Morricone is credited as conductor - but it is not clear whether this is really true.
For "Le voci", Bruno Nicolai as well was credited as conductor when it first appeared on another one of those RCA library LPs in 1970:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11771567-Various-Drammatici-E-Musiche-Di-Tensione-Psicologica-5
Thanks alot, Stefan!
So, in other words, the Morricone fans posting those data on chimai.com dispute the claims printed on the library LP releases that Nicolai was the sole conductor.
If you look closely at the specifically timed track segments on chimai.com, those fans attribute certain portions to Ferrara as if it was factual. I find this annoying. How do they know? How can they be so certain?
Amanti d'oltre tomba deserves a big question mark regarding the aussumption that Ferrara's Bibbia recording might have been used and/or been correctly identified.
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Franco Ferrara Dirige I Grandi Classici Della Musica Da Film – 4° Parte
(Franco Ferrara Conducts the Great Classics of Fim Music - Part 4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdKm_BhwTdQ&list=PLdl1y1w4PGIo7kWe3nsryLsqeky9wtuhA
The playlist contains 105 tracks from 8 films:
- La viaccia (Piccioni)
- Francis of Assisi (Nascimbene)
- Giuseppe venduto dai fratelli (Nascimbene)
- I mongoli (Nascimbene)
- Barabbas (Nascimbene)
- L’eclisse (Fusco)
- Arrivano i titani (Rustichelli)
- Cronaca familiare (Petrassi)
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Franco Ferrara Dirige I Grandi Classici Della Musica Da Film – 5° Parte
(Franco Ferrara Conducts the Great Classics of Fim Music - Part 5)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdZksflhRB4&list=PLdl1y1w4PGIqCsaEdYRlx2hkQlxQx9AFw
The playlist contains 99 tracks from 9 films:
- L'arciere delle mille e una notte (Nascimbene)
- Boccaccio ’70 (Rota)
- Il gattopardo (Rota)
- I patriarchi (Usuelli & Marinuzzi, jr.)
- Giacobbe l'uomo che lottò con Dio (Usuelli & Marinuzzi, jr.)
- I promessi sposi (Rustichelli)*
- L’intrigo (Lavagnino)
- Le schiave esistono ancora (Usuelli)
- 3 Notti d’amore (Fusco)
* Even though Rustichelli is credited as the conductor on the front cover which is a mistake, Franco Ferrara conducted this score.
Regarding the two Usuelli-Marinuzzi, jr. Bible scores, there is a whole complicated story behind the editorial situation of the music that has been released over the years.
I patriarchi and Giacobbe have been previously discussed in this thread:
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134101&forumID=1&archive=0
Over the weekend, I've spend some free time to see what's about it, only to find out, that it's even more complicated than you might think.
Anyway, both scores are very good, and at least 25 minutes of the music are available in excellent stereophonic sound through Universal Music Production. Unfortunately, the GDM download/album is all in mono and not very good sounding. And there are still a great number of tracks that have been released on LP compilations in the 1970s that have never been reissued on CD or in another digital format.
Check it out, the music is really good.
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[Edit: 09/16/22]
This is probably the third or fourth edit of my post due to those questionable Spaghetti Western and Hammer film music credits...
Franco Ferrara Dirige I Grandi Classici Della Musica Da Film – 6° Parte
(Franco Ferrara Conducts the Great Classics of Fim Music - Part 6)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU9BLh7qHSw&list=PLdl1y1w4PGIoBpnM8X-pAt0Y2bwgLZ2td
This final Ferrara playlist contains 104 tracks from 9 films:
- Buffalo Bill, l'eroe del far west (Rustichelli)
- Maciste alla corte dello zar (Rustichelli)
- I lunghi capelli della morte (Rustichelli)
- El Greco (Morricone)
- The Bible: In the Beginning… (Mayuzumi)
- Quella sporca storia nel west (De Masi)
- Dos hombres van a morir (De Masi)*
- 7 Winchester per un massacro (De Masi)**
- Il segreto del Sahara (Morricone) - feat. music from the unused demo score for "The Bible: In the Beginning..." (1966)
* According to Roberto Liso's Ferrara book, Franco Ferrara didn't conduct the score of "Ringo, il cavaliere solitario" at all. He did, however, compose additional music.
** Music ghost written by Franco Ferrara (uncredited), specific tracks actually composed by Ferrara unknown
See this thread here for more info:
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=148554
I'm currently thinking, that Ferrara did not conduct The Vengeance of She either. Unfortunately, I have no proof to back that up. This credit is, as it seems to me, solely based on the info printed in the GDI Records CD release which contains "She" and "The Vengeance of She". So I remove the music of that score from this playlist.
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I'm currently thinking, that Ferrara did not conduct The Vengeance of She either. Unfortunately, I have no proof to back that up. This credit is, as it seems to me, solely based on the info printed in the GDI Records CD release which contains "She" and "The Vengeance of She".
By the way, the saxophone soloist on Nascimbene´s THE VENGEANCE OF SHE was the British jazz musician Tubby Hayes (he is credited in the film´s Main Title). Should we therefore assume that Hayes especially flew to Rome for any recording sessions of this score? I rather doubt it. This is much more indicative that the recording sessions may have taken place in London. And if they did take place there, then Ferrara certainly didn´t conduct the music at all.
In the filmography of Roberto Liso´s Ferrara book VENGEANCE OF SHE isn´t mentioned at all.
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By the way, the saxophone soloist on Nascimbene´s THE VENGEANCE OF SHE was the British jazz musician Tubby Hayes (he is credited in the film´s Main Title). Should we therefore assume that Hayes especially flew to Rome for any recording sessions of this score? I rather doubt it. This is much more indicative that the recording sessions may have taken place in London. And if they did take place there, then Ferrara certainly didn´t conduct the music at all.
In the filmography of Roberto Liso´s Ferrara book VENGEANCE OF SHE isn´t mentioned at all.
I've looked into this once again very closely. It's tough to say. Based on the GDI CD, it must have been Ferrara conducting. No doubt about that.
Tubby Hayes could have recorded his solos in London while the orchestral parts were done in Rome. Supervised by Martell, and Nascimbene had to stay in Rome to keep it cheap.
John Mansell wrote a brief note about the score, only a few paragraphs. In our context, the following is interesting to note:
Quote:
"Hammer’s musical director Philip Martell commissioned Nascimbene to compose the score for The Vengeance of She early in 1968. The score was recorded in Rome to save the expense of the composer travelling to England. Although Martell remained in overall control of the music, it was performed by members of the Rome Symphony Orchestra and conducted by the highly respected Franco Ferrara, with whom Nascimbene had collaborated on a number of Italian and American films.
End quote
So, the recording must have taken place in the first half of 1968. That's quite some time after Ferrara retired from the film business. Did he come out of the retirement for this one? Is it all just false information?
Another thing is, Nascimbene was - according to the GDI CD release - directly involved in the restoration of his music. Claudio Fuiano prepared the tracks and restored some of them under the supervision of Mario.
This could also mean, Mario told the GDI people or Fuiano, whoever at the time Franco Ferrara did also conduct his score. But we don't know for sure as a number of other sources claim Ferrara stopped conducting film music in 1967.
From the CD credits in the booklet:
"Mario Nascimbene recorded by Claudio Fuiano[!]
Digital editing by Patrick Ehresmann
Tracks 19, 33 and 37 digitally restored by Claudio Fuiano, supervised by Mario Nascimbene"
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This could also mean, Mario told the GDI people or Fuiano, whoever at the time Franco Ferrara did also conduct his score. But we don't know for sure as a number of other sources claim Ferrara stopped conducting film music in 1967.
From the CD credits in the booklet:
"Mario Nascimbene recorded by Claudio Fuiano[!]
There is a lot of contradiction if you compare the booklet notes and the Nascimbene interview on the VENGEANCE OF SHE CD itself.
I have just listened again to that short interview that Claudio Fuiano conducted with Nascimbene for track 40 of the CD. Here is the most important excerpt:
Claudio Fuiano: "How was it working with the British conductor Philip Martell and with a British orchestra?"
Nascimbene: "As usual, I worked with all my heart in London because I liked very much English people. And especially in the field of the music this is a dream for a composer because everything is very serious, very professional. This is the reason why it was so beautiful to work."
So I wonder now why John Mansell wrote that the music was recorded in Rome whereas in this interview it is clearly stated that it was recorded in London.
Nascimbene was also not commissioned by Philip Martell as John wrote in the liner notes, but by producer Aida Young with whom Nascimbene was good friends. He was invited by Aida Young to come to London again and VENGEANCE OF SHE was already the third film they did together (after LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA and ONE MILLION YEARS B.C.).
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There is a lot of contradiction if you compare the booklet notes and the Nascimbene interview on the VENGEANCE OF SHE CD itself.
I have just listened again to that short interview that Claudio Fuiano conducted with Nascimbene for track 40 of the CD. Here is the most important excerpt:
Claudio Fuiano: "How was it working with the British conductor Philip Martell and with a British orchestra?"
Nascimbene: "As usual, I worked with all my heart in London because I liked very much English people. And especially in the field of the music this is a dream for a composer because everything is very serious, very professional. This is the reason why it was so beautiful to work."
So I wonder now why John Mansell wrote that the music was recorded in Rome whereas in this interview it is clearly stated that it was recorded in London.
Nascimbene was also not commissioned by Philip Martell as John wrote in the liner notes, but by producer Aida Young with whom Nascimbene was good friends. He was invited by Aida Young to come to London again and VENGEANCE OF SHE was already the third film they did together (after LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA and ONE MILLION YEARS B.C.).
With all due respect to John Mansell, I have to say, this puts him in an awkward situation. Writing those notes and apparently not giving any attention to that brief Nascimbene/Fuiano interview. How come?
There was a German DVD in the early 2000s that also contained 19 tracks from the soundtrack. According to Discogs, that release also credits Ferrara as the conductor:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/18599086-Mario-Nascimbene-The-Vengeance-Of-She-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack
Then there's the Nascimbene 3-LP set compilation "L'impronta del suono" which contains a track from Vengeance of She:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10073100-Mario-Nascimbene-LImpronta-Del-Suono
Is there a credited conductor listed on the LP labels?
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Then there's the Nascimbene 3-LP set compilation "L'impronta del suono" which contains a track from Vengeance of She:
https://www.discogs.com/de/release/10073100-Mario-Nascimbene-LImpronta-Del-Suono
Is there a credited conductor listed on the LP labels?
There is no conductor credited on the "Impronta del suono" LP box for VENGEANCE OF SHE.
And the same goes also for the double CD "A Mario Nascimbene Anthology" from 1996 on which also two tracks from that score can be found.
This leaves the GDI CD booklet as the only source with that odd mentioning of Ferrara as conductor of the Rome Symphony Orchestra which certainly isn´t true.
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There is no conductor credited on the "Impronta del suono" LP box for VENGEANCE OF SHE.
And the same goes also for the double CD "A Mario Nascimbene Anthology" from 1996 on which also two tracks from that score can be found.
This leaves the GDI CD booklet as the only source with that odd mentioning of Ferrara as conductor of the Rome Symphony Orchestra which certainly isn´t true.
Thanks for the info.
Yea, it's curios when the left hand doesn't know what the right hand does like here with this GDI CD. Well, that was more than 20 years ago. In hindsight, it sounds like a joke. Not a very good one.
I forgot to ask if any other conductor's credit ist listed on that 3-LP set?
Nascimbene assembled a couple of tracks from his more famous Hollywood films on the B-side of the third LP, in a way of a tribute to Ferrara:
"I Grandi Film Americani Diretti Da Franco Ferrara"
(The great American films conducted by Franco Ferrara)
Besides those titles, there are only two other scores, i.e. tracks from those scores, of which we know for certain that Ferrara had conductred the music:
- L'amore in città
- Estate violenta
- Scent of mystery
The other, still unresolved mystery is, whether any of the Dinosaurs scores were conducted by Ferrara. As you remember, another GDI CD claims exactly this in its booklet. I'm still holding out to get a definitive answer for that question. But based on all I've learned so far, Ferrara most likely didn't conduct any of these. If he really did, it would be a great surprise.
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