 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I must admit, the one note that rang a bit off from that first trailer was the young woman going all googly eyed over ancient looking Costner.
I'll play a bit of Devil's Advocate to you on this, Kev... Costner's not that ancient looking. And I've seen younger women go all googly eyed over much older actors like Sean Connery in his 70s, or heck in the western genre someone like Sam Elliott. Sheesh... my own wife has told me she's super attracted to gray hair and is looking forward to me developing some, lol!
Plus, the Old West was a different time and a different place, when it came to age differences between men and women that were accepted. I'm not saying it was for the better, but it was even more common than today (Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones still seem pretty happily married...) But I think many women cared most about who would treat them better and provide for them, in the harsh world of the time.
We are so used to revisionism now, with historical movies having to place African American and other type characters in prominent and authoritative roles, when in actuality, they very likely had much more servile roles.
And coming at this from another angle... I actually think modern westerns have been doing a much better job at accurately representing African Americans (and other people of color) in the Old West, while "classic westerns" absolutely downplayed their presence and participation in a way that wasn't historically accurate. Many studies have shown that black cowboys made up about one quarter of the cowboy population! Now yes, oftentimes (but not always) they were at a disanvantage in power and pay to their white counterparts. Some whites in the west were indeed racist and would avoid dealing with blacks who were promoted. But there was certainly less solidified systemic racism in the West for a time, *because* it was "wild". Compared to the East, less rules/society = less institutionalized racism in practice. As more Easterners (not just from the South, but the North too) moved West and began to bring "civilization" with them, that's when things got worse. Some links to check out if you're interested:
https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2022/03/black-cowboys-at-home-on-the-range/
https://www.rancholoscerritos.org/black-on-the-range-african-american-cowboys-of-the-19th-century/
https://www.quora.com/By-the-end-of-the-19th-century-45-of-American-cowboys-were-black-Mexican-mixed-race-or-Indian-One-in-four-cowboys-was-black-Why-were-black-cowboys-forgotten-in-the-history-of-the-Wild-West
Also a good detailed answer here on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/iiks7h/how_were_black_people_treated_during_what_people/?rdt=65265
And of course there are some prominent cases of black people even gaining some degree of power and notoriety in the West, such as Bass Reeves. It's amazing to think that only recently was a TV series *finally* dedicated to him, considering the legendary status as a lawman he achieved. Pretty much zero chance of Reeves getting a position like that if he was in the East (even the North... just because the North didn't have slavery didn't mean there wasn't strong societal racism).
Yavar
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
May 20, 2024 - 10:41 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
kingtolkien
(Member)
|
I must admit, the one note that rang a bit off from that first trailer was the young woman going all googly eyed over ancient looking Costner.
I'll play a bit of Devil's Advocate to you on this, Kev... Costner's not that ancient looking. And I've seen younger women go all googly eyed over much older actors like Sean Connery in his 70s, or heck in the western genre someone like Sam Elliott. Sheesh... my own wife has told me she's super attracted to gray hair and is looking forward to me developing some, lol!
Plus, the Old West was a different time and a different place, when it came to age differences between men and women that were accepted. I'm not saying it was for the better, but it was even more common than today (Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones still seem pretty happily married...) But I think many women cared most about who would treat them better and provide for them, in the harsh world of the time.
We are so used to revisionism now, with historical movies having to place African American and other type characters in prominent and authoritative roles, when in actuality, they very likely had much more servile roles.
And coming at this from another angle... I actually think modern westerns have been doing a much better job at accurately representing African Americans (and other people of color) in the Old West, while "classic westerns" absolutely downplayed their presence and participation in a way that wasn't historically accurate. Many studies have shown that black cowboys made up about one quarter of the cowboy population! Now yes, oftentimes (but not always) they were at a disanvantage in power and pay to their white counterparts. Some whites in the west were indeed racist and would avoid dealing with blacks who were promoted. But there was certainly less solidified systemic racism in the West for a time, *because* it was "wild". Compared to the East, less rules/society = less institutionalized racism in practice. As more Easterners (not just from the South, but the North too) moved West and began to bring "civilization" with them, that's when things got worse. Some links to check out if you're interested:
https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2022/03/black-cowboys-at-home-on-the-range/
https://www.rancholoscerritos.org/black-on-the-range-african-american-cowboys-of-the-19th-century/
https://www.quora.com/By-the-end-of-the-19th-century-45-of-American-cowboys-were-black-Mexican-mixed-race-or-Indian-One-in-four-cowboys-was-black-Why-were-black-cowboys-forgotten-in-the-history-of-the-Wild-West
Also a good detailed answer here on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/iiks7h/how_were_black_people_treated_during_what_people/?rdt=65265
And of course there are some prominent cases of black people even gaining some degree of power and notoriety in the West, such as Bass Reeves. It's amazing to think that only recently was a TV series *finally* dedicated to him, considering the legendary status as a lawman he achieved. Pretty much zero chance of Reeves getting a position like that if he was in the East (even the North... just because the North didn't have slavery didn't mean there wasn't strong societal racism).
Yavar
Concerning the 70 year old Sean Connery I remember that at one point in his career a journalist in Cannes asked him this.
"Do you know Mr Connery that bold men in their 60's are the best lovers?'
And Connery answered " I don't know madam I haven't ever had sex with a bold man in his 60s"
I love his response.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Was it maybe “bald” rather than “bold”? Either way, it is funny…
Yavar
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"But I think many women cared most about who would treat them better and provide for them, in the harsh world of the time"
-------------------------
Be that as it may, it ain't gonna sell well in this day and age, with a certain demographic.
Costner portraying himself in another 'white saviour' role is going to draw unwanted reviews and thumbs down for a series of films he really needs to float, with another part coming so soon after.
Reviewers might complain, social media will certainly do - but in reality people will either respond to the film or not, and Yellowstone proved that there is a massive audience out there enjoying Costner in Westerns.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I love the trailers, I love Costner‘s work, and I hope Debney‘s score will be released on June 28.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I love the trailers, I love Costner‘s work, and I hope Debney‘s score will be released on June 28.
WaterTower will release both parts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This movie is 4 parts? I assumed it was just the 2 parts being released this summer, but obviously not.
Costner has started filming part 3 and hopes to find financing for 4, and with the distributor wishing to release 1 & 2 within two months it is possible that this release schedule will be similar next year for the remaining two films.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gimme a CD, please 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
